No matter where you look, you can’t convincingly defend the idea of eternal torment through Scripture.
Last week, we looked at every single time the Bible mentions “Hell”, and we discovered that, in essence, it doesn’t. While there are 4 words that are sometimes translated as “Hell”, none of them actually mean anything resembling our modern concept of Hell.
BUT… as many of our intelligent readers were quick to point out, showing the word “Hell” is missing from the Bible does not conclusively prove the concept of Hell is not present in the Bible.
So that’s what we’ll be looking at today – the other parts – the Biblical passages that seem to suggest eternal torment without using the word “Hell”. We’ll cover:
- Weeping, Gnashing of Teeth & Outer Darkness
- The Parable of the Sheep & The Goats
- The Parable of Lazarus & The Rich Man (featuring Brad Jersak)
- Revelation & The Lake of Fire
- Paul’s “Everlasting Destruction” In 2 Thessalonians
Plus, we’ll take a look at a key word in John 3:16 that is mistranslated!
Let’s get started by establishing some context.
How Context Will Influence This Discussion
Reading a verse gives you a very narrow context for interpreting its meaning. Reading the full chapter will improve your context, but not as much as reading and meditating on the entire book. And even reading the whole book isn’t enough, as you still don’t understand the context the book was written in, the people it was written for, or the external events, stories, places & ideas it references.
Further complicating things, nearly all the passages we will discuss today are parables or stories that include figurative language and references to external ideas, some of which we know about and some of which we may not.
What’s my point?
In our last article, we made a compelling, black and white case against translations of the word “Hell” meaning a place of eternal torment. Because our focus was so narrow – refuting the interpretation of 13 words – a black & white approach was appropriate.
Today, taking such an approach would be a disservice to you. There is a vastly broader context to every one of the following passages. Trying to conclusively eliminate eternal torment as a POSSIBLE interpretation would be dishonest. Rather, our goal is to demonstrate that eternal torment is not the BEST interpretation given a broader Biblical context.
If you want to confine your theology to a verse-by-verse context, here are 21 verses that explicitly say the wicked will be permanently destroyed. And here are 21 verses that say God will save ALL men.
But if you are interested in taking a broader view of Scripture, that’s what we’ll be attempting to do today.
1. Weeping, Gnashing of Teeth & Outer Darkness
One of the theme’s that came up frequently in last week’s comments was Jesus’ references to weeping, gnashing of teeth, and outer darkness. We see this on multiple occasions, in Matthew 8, 13, 22, 24, 25 and Luke 13.
I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. – Matthew 8:11-12
It’s intriguing to me that so many think of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” as a reference to physical torture. If you told me your friend was “crying and grinding his teeth” I wouldn’t think, “Well he’s clearly being tortured.” More importantly, if we look in Acts 7, we see another reference to teeth gnashing.
You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”
When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.
What’s most intriguing to me about this passage is that this particular language is used in reference to the religious elite and their response to the Gospel.
Why is this interesting?
Because virtually every time Jesus mentions “gnashing of teeth”, he is talking to or about the religious elite.
In Matt 8, Jesus sees the faith of the centurion and says many will come to sit at the table with Israel’s revered fathers in the kingdom of heaven, but the “sons of the kingdom” will be cast into darkness, where they will weep and gnash their teeth.
Who are the “sons of the kingdom”? The descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And more specifically, Jesus seems to be focusing on those who would identify themselves as “sons of the kingdom” while rejecting His ministry. We know from John 8 that Pharisees often boasted in their status as children of Abraham while rejecting Jesus’ words.
Luke 13 is even more telling. We see this exact same language being used as Jesus is talking in the presence of the Pharisees.
23 And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.”
It’s fascinating that Jesus’ figurative warnings, in a similar manner to his mentions of Gehenna, are NOT made towards the criminals or other types we would typically think of as sinners.
His response when asked about sinners is, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
His response to the adulteress is, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
But to the Pharisees, the religious elite, He tells them they cannot escape Gehenna and offers parable after parable warning of weeping and gnashing of teeth. And what’s more, they knew definitely that Jesus was talking to them.
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. When they sought to seize Him, they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet.
In Matthew 24:51, Jesus makes a special reference to this place of weeping being occupied by the hypocrites, a word He also used to describe the Pharisees.
He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
This is where we get back to the context I mentioned earlier. Yes, you could look at any one of these parables and apply it unilaterally to all people, but that’s not the context in which these stories were given. When we step back and take a broader view, we don’t see threats of eternal torment to the unbeliever, we see a warning to the religious hypocrites.
We see Jesus telling those who consider themselves the “first”, the “sons of the kingdom”, the descendants of the patriarchs, that their end will not be as they expect.
2. The Sheep & The Goats – There Is No “Eternity”
Now let’s zero in on a specific one of these parables – one that is often viewed as a picture of the final judgment. The parable of the sheep and the goats.
In the last few verses of the parable, it says:
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
This is where the rubber really meets the road. The phrase is right there: “eternal punishment”.
And this is where we discover, yet again, that some of our core perceptions of the Bible are the result of outdated Greek translations.
The word punishment used here is iskolasis, which can also be translated as “correction”. It speaks to the idea of corrective punishment.
The word eternal used here is aiōnios, and like Gehenna, it has been completely mistranslated throughout the New Testament. As NT Greek teacher Richard Liantonio explains, aiōnios actually refers to to the length of an Age or “from age to age”. In Greek, an Age could refer to a generation, lifetime, or a longer, finite length of time. It’s where we get our word “eon”. It also correlates with the Hebrew word Yom, which denotes anything from a 24-hour period to an epoch season.
What this means is that any time we see the term “eternal life” in the New Testament, it should actually be translated as “life of the Age”.
Think about that for a second. That’s a pretty big deal.
Among other important things, it means that this phrase “eternal punishment” could more accurately be viewed as “correction for the length of the Age“.
This paints a VERY different picture than the one we are used to, but when we dig a bit deeper, we find it to be far more congruent with scripture than our old paradigm.
There is a profound difference between restorative punishment and retributive punishment. In the Western world, we operate based on retributive justice. You committed a felony? You are punished by going to jail. You murdered someone? You are put to death or sent to jail for life. These punishments are not distributed with a positive outcome in mind. They are not intended to rehabilitate or restore. They are society’s retribution upon the wrong-doer, intended solely to punish and perhaps discourage others from wrongdoing for fear of punishment.
Since non-restorative punishment is our idea of justice, it’s no surprise we project it onto God.
But this is NOT the God we see in the Bible. God’s heart is ALWAYS to restore. We see this time and time and time again throughout His dealings with Israel.
Even if we take a traditionalist view of Israel’s calamities as the active hand of God punishing His people, we still see a God longing to bring His people back to Himself. We see Jesus lamenting that Jerusalem so often denied His protection.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
The God of Israel always punished to restore, and that’s what we see in an accurate translation of Matthew 25:46 – not “eternal punishment” but “correction for the length of an age”.
3. The Parable of Lazarus & The Rich Man
The parable of Lazarus in Luke 16 offers us the only true visual of afterlife torment found in Scripture. For a dive into this parable, we turn to theologian Brad Jersak, who has graciously allowed us to share his analysis with you.
Throughout the ‘hell debates’ of recent years, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) has repeatedly begged our attention, especially in Q&A times following the documentary, Hellbound? The dialogue has urged me towards a sharper focus on the layered functions of the parable than I offered in my contemplative read in Her Gates Will Never Be Shut. Herein, I will introduce an outline that I hope invites fuller treatment.
False functions
First, we ought to dismiss the false functions of the parable as assigned by traditional (but sloppy) literalism. Readers often imagine that Jesus’ intent is to describe the nature of divine judgment and the state of the damned—or ‘hell’ (lit. hades), defined as an inescapable place of fiery judgment. The symbolic nature of parables is frequently negated and the passage treated as a revelation of the afterlife.
Briefly, interpreting the story of Dives (Lat. ‘rich man’ in the Vulgate) and Lazarus as descriptive of ‘hell’ ignores the difference between hades and paradise vis-à-vis heaven and hell, both biblically and theologically, even by literalist standards. The text says the rich man is in hades, borrowed from Greek language and mythology to correspond with the Hebrew Sheol—the place of the dead or the grave prior to the final Day of Judgment. This is confirmed by the rich man’s desire to send a warning to his brothers before it is too late. Thus, whatever the rich man is suffering, it is a precursor to the Day of the Lord and distinct from the infernalist’s typical everlasting ‘lake of fire.’
Moreover, aspects of the story make a crass literalism awkward: how does the rich man communicate with Abraham across the chasm? Does everyone there have a direct line to the patriarch? Does someone being incinerated in a furnace care about thirst? Are these literal flames? And since hades precedes the resurrection of the body, do we have literal tongues with which to feel thirst? Is this also the literal Abraham? Do the millions in his care take turns snuggling with him? Or is his bosom big enough to contain us all at once? How big he must be! And so on into implausibility.
Taking the parable seriously means we mustn’t take it so literally. Rather than text-mining for the architecture of the underworld, we ought to be digging for the intended message of Jesus. He is using the afterlife to illuminate some truth about this life. If we read carefully, we begin to see hints of the rich strata of meaning that beckon us deeper beneath the surface. I will propose three such layers here.
4. Revelation & The Lake of Fire
There are a total of five verses that mention “the Lake of Fire” In scripture. All of these scriptures are found in later half of the book of Revelation in chapters 19, 20 and 21.
Revelation is a unique book. It’s the only Apocalyptic book included in the New Testament canon. It was written at least several decades after Christ’s crucifixion and is much different than any other book found in the new testament.
Apocalypticism is a type of genre that is very much symbolic and cryptic in nature. Symbols are usually culturally developed and must be interpreted using that culture’s perspective or lens. We must look at other examples of writing that mention these symbols and see if we can find patterns and similarities in their contexts and meanings.
In other words, the book of Revelation CANNOT be read literally.
In fact, reading Revelation literally is pretty much the only way to be 100% confident you are interpreting it WRONG.
When Apocalyptic language is used in the Bible, it very often correlates with mythologies that would have been prevalent when the book was written.
One prominent example of this is the mythology of Tiamat. In many near eastern mythologies surrounding the Mesopotamian Area, including those of the Sumerians, Assyrians, and Babylonians, Tiamat was known as the primordial goddess of the ocean, who mates with Abzu (the god of fresh water) to produce younger gods and subsequently, the cosmos. In the Babylonian creation myth, she is depicted as a sea serpent or dragon, who is defeated by Marduk. Many sources identify her with images of a sea serpent or dragon.
Why am I telling you this? Because we see places all over the Bible that allude to Tiamat. Remember the imagery in Genesis 1?
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters…
… And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
This depiction – the void and the water, the separation of the waters in the forming of creation – this imagery is remarkably similar to what we find in the story of Tiamat. And it doesn’t stop here. The depiction of Tiamat as a sea dragon might as well be the Hebrew Leviathan, referenced in Job 3:8, Amos 9:3, Psalm 74:13-23, Psalm 104:26, and Isaiah 27:1.
But most importantly, and the reason we are talking about it now, the story of Tiamat’s fight with Marduk is strikingly similar to the account of God’s battle with “the dragon” in Revelation. Furthermore, according to Hermann Gunkel‘s Religio-historical Study of Genesis 1 and Revelation 12, “it was common for Near Eastern religions to include a Chaoskampf: a cosmic battle between a sea monster representing the forces of chaos and a creator god or culture hero who imposes order by force.”
In other words, history suggests the central battle of Revelation is not a foretelling of some final showdown between God and devil, but rather, a symbolic story based heavily on local creation mythology.
That’s not something you typically hear about on Sunday morning.
But what about the lake of fire?
A common thread we tend to see in this genre of writing is an ever present dualism that lies at the core of every story. Good and evil are personified and we see that evil is punished after its defeat.
In Daniel 7:11, we read,
Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
And similar, in Revelation 20:10,
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Just as the beasts in Daniel were highly figurative, symbolically represented various nations, so too is the lake of burning sulfur figurative. Why would we cherry pick this one piece of the Apocalyptic story as literal when we known undoubtedly that everything else in the story is figurative?
Since Revelation is an extreme display of symbolism, the lake of fire could represent multiple concepts.
In Revelation 20:14, we see Death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire. This could very well mean that the lake of fire represents God’s eternal triumph over evil, sin, and death.
We know that both judgement and destruction are often represented in the Bible as some sort of fire of flame. We know that a “lake of fire” plays heavily into the Near Eastern concept of bodies of water representing disorder or Chaos. Jesus calming the sea in the Gospel which was much bigger than just a supernatural miracle. Only Yahweh could bring order out of Chaos, and we see Christ being very intentional in that display. People who heard that story circulating would have understood the deeper meaning.
These symbols could be pointing to God as the proverbial hero who will ultimately prevail.
In an alternative view, it should be noted that the word for “torment” in Revelation 14:10 is the Greek “basanizo” which has a primary meaning of testing with a touchstone. This suggests that the lake of fire might not be for torment or destruction, but rather, for “testing”. The language used here creates an analogy to the testing metal with a touchstone in order to make sure it is pure.
This idea seems to fit with 1 Corinthians 3:13-15,
… each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
At the end of the day, it’s difficult to make absolute conclusions about symbolic stories, which is why every Christian you’ve ever met has a different view of eschatology.
But what we don’t see here is the conclusive idea that people will be tortured for eternity.
5. “Everlasting Destruction” In 2 Thessalonians
As our final stop on today’s journey, we’ll look at 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9,
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
This is a fascinating verse, because at face value, it pretty much throws a monkey wrench in every possible view of the afterlife.
If you believe in the mainstream concept of Hell, the word “destruction” is not helping you out. If you believe in Christian Universalism, the word “destruction” is not helping you out. If you believe in the annihilation of the wicked, or are simply reading this verse as a rational human being, the combination of “eternal” and “destruction” simply doesn’t make sense.
As we previously discussed, the Greek word aiōnios, doesn’t mean “eternal”, it signifies the duration of the Age. But even still, we are left confused. “Destruction for an age” doesn’t make sense in this context. Any way you look at it, either Paul is talking about something that escapes our understanding or this phrase is mistranslated.
According to Dr. Peter Bluer, this dilemma is solved by a more in depth look at this word for “destruction” – ολεθρος or olethros. In Dr. Bluer’s 38 page exposition of this phrase, he demonstrates that olethros is most accurately translated here as the state of being lost.
“These will pay the penalty in the age (or eon) of loss from the face of the Lord and the glory of His strength.”
Or alternatively, “These will suffer the age of loss from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His strength.”
Not only does this make perfect sense, but it fits perfectly with similar wording throughout the New Testament, as Dr. Bluer covers in his exposition. Most notably, we find in these verses that the same word ἀπόλλυμι used in both John 3:16…
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (ἀπόλλυμι), but have eternal life.
… and in the story of the Prodigal Son’s return in Luke 15:32,
But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost (ἀπόλλυμι) and has been found.
This same word ἀπόλλυμι is translated as both “perish” and “lost”. Since “perish” cannot be used correctly in Luke 15:32, it would make sense that John 3:16 might be more accurately read as,
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not be lost, but have the Age of life.”
And we know how God responds to those who are lost.
Conclusion
Thanks for joining us in this important discussion. If you missed the first part of our 3-part series on Hell, click here to catch up.
Next week, we’ll finish off this series by examining the very non-Biblical places our modern view of Hell actually comes from. We’ll also be examining the afterlife views of Church fathers throughout history and dismantling the frankly ridiculous idea that early Church fathers universally believed in eternal torment.
Want to learn more about Hell? Enter your email below to get our full 10,000 word series!
Co-written by Jacob McMillen & Josiah Pemberton
This is awesome. I am totally engrossed in this series! Keep it up!
Thanks Rohon! Much appreciated!
Thank you so much for this article. I guess, then, I am wondering if we are all going to heaven eventually, then what’s the point of living righteously now? Mind you, as a believer, I know the answer within myself…. peace, joy and a purpose. But how do you answer that question to someone who is steeped in logic?
Again, thank you for the article. It was a source of intellectual stimulus and yes, even encouragement.
The answer to this argument is that the point of life has never been about “being good” for God, but about having a relationship with Him. Our “goodness” or lack thereof has never been the point. When we realize who we are in the RELATIONSHIP, attitudes and desires that formerly led us to “sin” (morally fail) now lead us to love.
Hell and punishment are ONLY needed for those who obey because they are AFRAID of God, showing they do not yet now who He is and who we are to Him. When your idea of God is changed (you “repent” (change your thinking), and are “saved” from your blindness), you no longer need FEAR to motivate you to good deeds.
Do you actually believe a Holy and Righteous God would allow those who have been willingly DISOBEDIENT to His word will enter into His Rest? Just like the Israelites before entering into Canaan those who refuse to be TRUSTING AND OBEDIENT to God’s word will NOT ENTER INTO His rest.. It is amazing how this article twists God into compromising who He is. He gave you HIS STANDARD. We failed. He gave us our chance at redemption and there are those who still REFUSE HIM. Christ tells us not to fear those that can kill the body but He that can destroy both body and soul. Pretty much sums up God. Such white washing of God’s Holiness is an abomination and truly shameful. I would put this teaching on the same level of Joel Osteen’s prosperity preaching. So if you take this to the end this means that even Lucifer will be redeemed and returned to Heaven and I don’t think the Angel of Pride and Arrogance will ever be allowed back in for his rebellion.
But we are ALL disobedient to His word. Nobody completely understands everything or lives completely according to His principles OR really believes that God loves us all the time no matter what, on a practical daily level. We are all on a sliding scale in such things. Look out the window, does life have “yes/no”? We create these false simplicities to try and understand things. 🙁
I can’t take anyone seriously who still believes the Lucifer is the name of a fallen angel.
A Holy and Righteous God, as you describe, would have destroyed Adam and Eve and put an end to it quickly. It’s sad that anyone would equate God’s holiness to His need for vengeance to keep a soul in torment for eternity
Robin Parry has an entertaining video on the question of “Why follow Jesus if there’s no eternal hell.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sSQ-P3ckY
I would like to add my comment to the most serious subject, “Why follow JESUS, if there is no eternal hell?”
Published by the Pittsburg Bible Institute:“The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word THEION which means ‘divine.’ (emphasis mine) Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense.
In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).
To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ would mean a ‘lake of divine purification.’ The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.”
Charles Pridgeon; Is Hell Eternal, or Will God’s Plan Fail; pgs 116 & 117.
Here, Brother Pridgeon makes a vital point: brimstone is for purification, not punishment. This thought went unquestioned until the Dark Ages. His purpose was understood to purify and consecrate, not separate and punish. This Lake of Divine Fire will purify, refine, restore and consecrate til there is nothing left that is contrary to Him.
You may very well be asking the question “if there is no “eternal torment” for anyone, and there is no “eternal annihilation” for anyone, then what are we being saved from?”
Hopefully, the answer to that question will become more clear from what I will be sharing from the Written Word of God.
You see, when someone receives the gift of salvation, that person is being saved from having to go through the process of the refining FIRE of God’s Spirit for the purpose of divine purification. This is a process that all unbelievers will go through, which through the shed blood of Christ on the Cross is God’s final step in “reconciling” that person back to “Him” as “He” promished to do. (Malachi 3:2 – “The Lord is like a refiners fire.”)
(Colossians 1:20 – And God was pleased for Christ to make peace by sacrificing “His” blood on the Cross, so that all beings in heaven and on earth would be brought back to God. )
It is so very important for us to have the understanding that Believers in Christ who have not been faithful servants will also go through “the very same process as unbelievers” in respect to the refining FIRE of God’s Spirit doing a work of divine purification in them.
This is illustrated in Matthew 24:51 in which in the parable of the unfaithful servant, JESUS declares that the unfaithful servant will be assigned the “same portion as the unbelievers,” which will be the process of the refining FIRE of God’s Spirit for the purpose of divine purification.
In that parable, JESUS is not speaking about unbelievers, because an unbeliever is not a servant of JESUS. Only a Believer in Christ can be called a servant.
When a person receives the gift of Salvation, that person then becomes a servant of God. It is up to that person to whether or not they remain faithful to the Lord.
This is why that JESUS declares to us in this verse, that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Profound regret and sorrow).
The reason for their weeping and gnashing of teeth, is because they will come to the stark realization that as a Believer in Christ, they were given the opportunity to rule and reign with Christ, but because they were found to have been an unfaithful servant, they will have missed out on having obtained the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus. which the Apostle Paul speaks about, which is to rule and reign with Christ.
So, when a person receives the gift of Salvation, that person is not escaping “hell” and “eternal torment” and “eternal annihilation,” because the doctrine of “hell” and “eternal torment” and “eternal annihilation” is not Biblical! That person (if they remain faithful to the Lord) will not be put through the process of the refining FIRE of God’s Spirit for the purpose of divine purification. This Biblical explanation is certainly much different than what is being taught by the mainstream Christian Church.
A much closer examination of a number of the parables of JESUS, reveals the same Biblical truths that have already been shared in this article.
NOTE: I do not understand how that a Christian can read this article in it’s entirety without serious questions being raised in their mind and Spirit about the traditional teaching on “Hell,” the “Lake of Fire,” and “eternal torment” that is being taught today in the Church, and is widely accepted as Biblical truth by most Christians today.
Satan has done a very masterful job in “blinding” today’s Church to many Biblical truths. Not only does Satan hate humans because they are made in God’s image, but because Satan lost his position of being the highest ranking angel before he sinned, he cannot stand the thought of Christians ruling & reigning with Christ.
The Church has been “deceived” into believing that all Christians will rule & reign with Christ. However, a closer examination of the “Scriptures” will reveal to us that there will be many Christians who will not rule & reign with Christ.
Satan does not want Christians to know this “little known truth” which has not been understood by the Church today. It is Christians who have practiced “applying” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives who will rule & reign with Christ.
Philippians 3:14 is a MONUMENTAL Passage of “Scripture” for a Christian to understand. After a careful examination of this Passage of “Scripture,” if we are able to come to an understanding of the “profound truth” that is in this Passage of “Scripture,” then it becomes clear as to why this Passage of “Scripture” is of MONUMENTAL importance for a Christian to understand.
The widespread teaching of the Church today, is that all Christians will rule & reign with Christ. However, upon careful examination of the “Scriptures,” the Written Word of God tells us differently.
The Lord through “His” Written Word, is wanting us to understand that Salvation through Grace is “His” free gift to those who accept JESUS as their Lord and Saviour, and to understand that after a person’s Salvation that there is a “prize” that awaits all those who “press toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus.
The “prize” is that of ruling & reigning with Christ, which can only be obtained through a Christian becoming qualified. (qualified – i.e. having been made fit for a position or purpose) Not all Christians will be qualified to rule & reign with Christ.
In fact, one such example can be found in Revelation 3:16, in which JESUS tells the Laodicean Church that because of it’s “lukewarm condition” that “HE” is going to spew them out of “His” mouth. (i.e. because they were not applying the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives, they will not rule & reign with “Him”)
NOTE: JESUS was warning those who were in a “lukewarm condition,” that “if they continued” to stay in that condition, “the final results” would be that they will not rule and reign with “Him” when “HE” returns to set up and establish “His” Kingdom here on earth.
When JESUS made that statement, “HE” was addressing Christians. There is no such thing as a lukewarm non-believer. “Only a Believer in Christ can become lukewarm.”
JESUS also gives us several more examples in some of “His” parables, which can be difficult to understand when trying to decipher the true meaning.
Having obtained the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ does not in itself “qualify” us to rule and reign with Christ.
After the free gift of Salvation, the Lord wants us to have the understanding that there is a “prize” that awaits Christians, but is not automatically awarded to each and every Christian, but is only awarded to those who “press toward the goal” of obtaining that “prize” which the Apostle Paul speaks about.
Salvation through Jesus Christ puts us in position to have the opportunity to “qualify” for obtaining the “prize” of ruling & reigning with Christ.
The Apostle Paul tells us in Philippians 3:14 that he was always “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus. The Apostle Paul had already obtained his Salvation through Grace, so this is not the “prize” that he is speaking about.
The Apostle Paul understood that if a Christian is not careful and not wise to the tactics of the enemy, that he or she can easily “miss the mark” of obtaining the “prize,” which is to rule and reign with Christ.
I believe that this was constantly on the Apostle Paul’s mind.
The Apostle Paul was so concerned about this, that in the 9th Chapter of 1st Corinthians, he tells us that we are to run the race and finish the race in order to obtain the “prize.”
The Apostle Paul states the last thing that he wanted was to become a “castaway” himself. The word “castaway” in the Greek means: unapproved, rejected, disqualified.
Even though the Apostle Paul had obtained his Salvation through Grace, and had obtained a very powerful gifting to carry out his earthly ministry, he recognized that if he did not run the race and “finish it,” that he would himself be unapproved, rejected, disqualified from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
The Apostle Paul was determined to not allow himself “to lose sight” of “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
JESUS tells us in Revelation 3:21, “To him that overcometh, will I grant to sit with “ME” on my throne.” (i.e. – “HE” will grant the “prize” of ruling & reigning with “Him” to Christians who have practiced “applying” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives)
When we are able to grasp the revelation of what “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus truly entails, then some of the difficult to understand sayings of JESUS, and the meaning of some of the difficult to understand parables of JESUS will become more clear to our understanding.
A “major blind spot” of today’s Church, has been, and is, it’s lack of understanding of the difference of “entering” the Kingdom of God, and “inheriting” the Kingdom of God. Only those who “inherit” the Kingdom of God, will rule and reign with Christ!
Without a doubt,“a top priority of Satan, through deceit,” is to keep as many Christians as he can from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
NOTE: Have you ever thought about what exactly it is that the Saints who have been faithful, will be ruling and reigning over?
It is clear from “Scripture” that the unbelievers who survive the Great Tribulation Period will be allowed to enter into the Millennium Kingdom Age of Christ on earth, in which they will continue to bear children and populate the earth.
There are estimates that 80 Billion people to several hundred Billion people could be born during this period of time. The Age that will follow the Millennium Kingdom Age will be the New Earth Age. I do believe that the case can be made from a careful study of the “Scriptures,” that the “Scriptures” reveal that people will continue to be born in the New Earth Age.
As of January 2017, through the latest telescope technology, scientists are now able to observe 10% of the Universe which has revealed that there are now an estimated 2 Trillion Galaxies in our Universe. Also, there is now believed to be an estimated 800 Billion to 8 Trillion Planets in our Galaxy (The Milky Way).
There are certain to be many more Galaxies in our Universe, because these estimates come only from the observable Universe, which up to the present (January of 2017), is only 10% . We now know that our Universe is continually expanding, and that it is now expanding at an accelerated rate of speed.
God did not create all that “HE” has created just because “HE” got bored and had nothing else better to do. All that God does and has done “is for a specific purpose.” God has “a specific purpose” for the vastness of outer space and all that it contains.
If new generations of people are going to continue to be born in the New Earth Age that follows the Millennium Kingdom Age, then the earth will soon reach it’s limit as to how many people it can support. Maybe this is why God created such a vastness of outer space that is incomprehensible to the human mind.
This is just a portion of a much larger piece that I have written. If anyone would like a copy in it’s original Word Document Format, feel free to e-mail me and request a copy, and I will e-mail you a copy of the complete writing that I have done. It is under the title “What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ?”
candy33alan@aol.com
Hey Darrelynn, I think the answer to that lies in Jesus’ shocking imagery in Mark 9:43, where he says it’s better to cut off your hand then go into Gehenna with two hands. As we discussed in Part 1, the fires of Gehenna are being used here to represent the destruction of sin, and what Jesus is showing us is that sin is so destructive, it will sabotage your life worse than physical maiming.
I think the advantage of a righteous life is that it’s a life of wholeness, full of the fruits of the spirit. Think about peace, for a moment. Inner peace. EVERYONE in the world craves this. EVERYONE. And those who know the Father, commune with Holy Spirit, and don’t actively eliminate peace via sin… these rare people have what everyone else wants. And that’s just one of the fruits.
Most people stumble their way brokenly through life trying to find identity. They try all the unrighteous things and it doesn’t really do it for them. Fullness of life is something worth having, if there ever was something worth having.
Wish there was a “like” button for this comment J! 🙂
Thanks Catherine!
Yes and in general!
the point is that if you haven’t experienced Jesus and His peace and joy, is hard to see that what you live is darkness and maybe hell itself. But when you stepped one day into heaven you just want to seek it more and more. until you live it in its fullness (here on earth)
While I absolutely agree that there is no Eternal punishment in Hell, I think what we are forgetting about is to really look at the day in the time that Christ lived. At that time Jews did have an idea of a quasi Purgatory where the righteous would go it was called the bosom of abraham or paradise and there they would wait for the Resurrection and the other place was gehenna which was a place that was supposed to purify the soul. These two places were separated by a chasm in early Hebrew belief. This absolutely fits in line with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. In addition it also explains how Christ could tell the thief on the cross that today he would be in Paradise with him. Jesus could see his heart and knew that he had repentance.
Yes, I had the same “like” wish (and immediately read Catherine’s same)! The heaven/ reward structure/future separation psyche, are all the dilema of imagined not-wholeness now . (To remove them in an untimely manner from anyone is not what I’m advocating) Why wouldn’t we live what Jacob McMillen just testified to (testifying onward myself), and demonstrating heaven AS earth Now (and forever, they are one and the same) .
Thank you for taking the time to write this. Seriously. It’s a hot topic and I know so many want to hold on to the traditionalist idea of “hell”, but it just doesn’t hold weight given the overwhelming evidence. Part of the issue, is that people who believe in that kind of hell think that the only reason we should follow God is because if we don’t we face eternal peril. I think this totally misses the hope of the Gospel. The hope of the Gospel is that we can live out now what God has always intended for us. Under the reign of Jesus the Messiah, our lives can flourish. Now, I don’t want to sound like I’m saying everything will be fixed, because the Messiah’s way is the way of the cross (and the way of the resurrection). But, I do want to say that the life of the “age to come” is available in Jesus right now. Anyway, can’t wait for the next post! Thanks again!
Oh, and I hope you don’t mind me shamelessly plugging my blog.
http://godsfoolishness.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-scandal-of-christmas-continues.html
Well said, Joe! And absolutely, plug away!
I am so glad I found this blog! Love reading the content and challenging my perceptions of the Bible. One question I have is the importance of preaching the Gospel and evangelizing if there is a built-in period of correction for those who do not truly know Christ (both like the religious leaders and the “unsaved”). There likely is a huge responsibility and inescapable consequence of our disobedience in preaching the Gospel to all creation, but in light of this article I wonder more substantially about it.
Hey Andrew, thanks for the kind words! That is a GREAT question! And to be honest, I’m still pondering the answer, but I’ll share what I have thus far.
Think about a typical father and what he wants for his kids. Peace, joy, purpose, love, hope, family, fullness of life. Many of these things come from identity – how they view themselves, how they believe the most important people in their life view them, how they view the world.
Most of the brokenness in this world comes from a lack of identity. People don’t know who they are, why they are here, or what they should be doing with themselves. Many will find some level of identity and purpose in their passions and in the people they love. But to really have true peace inside, I think we need something more than that.
So when I see God as our Father, I see someone who wants us to have all of those same things. And I think it’s imparted. Our natural fathers and mothers can healthy impart identity in us, but they will all fall short on some level. God wants us to experience fullness of life, and I don’t think we can find it outside of relationship with our Heavenly Father.
So all that to say, their is a broken world searching for hope, for peace, for life, and we have it. We have what they need. Well, we have it once we understand the Father for ourselves. And since the lies of the church have kept us from seeing God as He is, we see the same dysfunction in the church as we see outside it. But some have caught it, and my hope is that we can spread it internally and externally, bringing the world into fullness of life.
That’s my view of evangelism, for what it’s worth. I don’t think “converting” someone does anything, although I do think leading someone to reach out to God sets them up for an encounter.
My testimony here is to encourage you Jacob. I`ve undergone a period of fiery testing which culminated in my having to seek help from an ekklesia ( church ) member. The day after his kind visit to me I felt that my fellowship with God had been totally restored and I was in total anticipation of something that would occur during that day. In the late afternoon I ran into somebody that I had had connection with in a rehab situation, he as a client and me as a voluteer. He got to telling me how he was feeling God calling him back to address his recent lapses into dangerous territory. He expressed, as a rationale for this, that we are in the last days, Jesus is coming back soon, and, he better get his act together. I explained to him my persuasion that we had been in the last days for 2000 years and that in our day Jesus is returning IN his people ( as scripture alludes to in the references to the restoration of all things and the manifestation of the sons of God ). HIs response to me was visibly tangible. It most certainly struck a chord of cardiognosis between the two of us and he seemed to light up as though it were something he intuitively knew but had never had categorically expressed to him before. In His love, Michael.
For our God [is] a consuming fire. Hebrews 12:29
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Luke 3:16
Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. Jeremiah 1:9
And he laid [it] upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.Isaiah 6:7
[Is] not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer [that] breaketh the rock in pieces?Jeremiah 23:29
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people.Isaiah 51:16
Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. Jeremiah 5:14
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But [his word] was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not [stay].Jeremiah 20:9
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: Psalms 104:4
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
3 And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Malachi 3
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed. Exodus 3:2
My heart was hot within me, while I was musing the fire burned: then spake I with my tongue, Psalm 39:3
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Acts 2:3
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? Luke 24:32
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:1 Peter 1:7
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.Isaiah 48:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].
1 Peter 5:10
But he knoweth the way that I take: [when] he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. Job 23:10
The fining pot [is] for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts. Proverbs 17:3
For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. Psalms 66:10-12
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God. Zechariah 13:9
If you are open to a comment from a dissenting opinion, here are a few observations:
An important passage to add to the 21 in support of Conditional Immortality:
2 Peter 2:4-9: ” For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living
among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
Second observation: in 2 Thessalonians 1, you actually make a good argument for conditionalism. Our view is that Paul’s use of the term “eternal destruction” would be an odd use – if the object being destroyed was never destroyed. As such, it would have been better for him to say “eternal destructing” if eternal conscious torment was what he had in mind. Eternal is just a way of modifying the noun destruction – so it can be read as destruction of an eternal, final kind. In other words, the object destroyed will never be re-constructed. Reading it this way does no grammatical damage to the text.
Finally, the lake of fire is simply symbolism or imagery from the vision that John was given. It would be a contentious point of discussion that could be difficult to resolve – if it were not for the fact that the interpretation is given to us. The lake of fire is the second death. No mention of any restorative feature of this term.
Hey Peter, thanks for commenting. Dissenting opinions are always welcome!
What are your thoughts on Ezekiel 16? I find this passage interesting, but I haven’t seen it discussed. Sodom is pretty much the personification of sin and judgement, and Jude alludes to the eternal fires that burned it, in addition to the passage you mentioned.
“53 “Nevertheless, I will restore their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, and [ae]along with them [af]your own captivity, 54 in order that you may bear your humiliation and feel ashamed for all that you have done when you become a consolation to them. 55 Your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, [ag]will return to their former state, and you with your daughters will also return to your former state.”
I hadn’t actually seen this passage until yesterday, so I haven’t had time to look into it, but I’d be curious to know your thoughts on it.
In terms of the lake of fire, as I mention in the article, it seems strange that we are trying to make a literal interpretation, explanation or no explanation, of such a symbolic book with numerous non-Biblical influences. I don’t see it being as straightforward as a vision and description of said vision with God explaining it along the way.
Thanks for the extended grace Jacob! Re Ezekiel 16:53, I have encountered that passage as an argument in the past – as a rebuttal from universalists. The way I look at it is to look at the New Testament first. In Matt 21:43 we can see that Jesus told them that the ministry of proclaiming the kingdom would be taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. Paul augments this statement in Romans 11:13-14 by telling the Gentiles that in ministering to them, he is hoping to make his fellow Jews jealous – thus hoping to save some of them.
Given this informed way to read the OT passage in view, we can see that, despite the fact that God cared for Israel and entered into a covenant with them – they played the whore. Verse 21, “you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering to idols”. In this whoring with nations such as the Egyptians, the Philistines, the Assyrians and the Chaldeans, God clearly spelled out the fact that He would judge them and deliver Israel into the hands of these nations which would bring wrath upon them in fury and jealousy. They would be stoned and cut to pieces. Their houses would be burned.
In verse 42, it says that God would satisfy His fury on them, and His jealousy would turn away from them. He would be calm and would be angry no more.
As we read on, Isaiah comments about Samaria and Sodom. He chooses to use these examples to show how Israel has followed their ways and acted according to their abominations. The point he is making, however, is focused on Israel – and not on the city of Sodom or on Samaria. They are mentioned merely to bring a comparison – and as such, to help illustrate the level of wickedness that they were being charged with.
So when, in verse 53, Isaiah says that he is going to restore the fortunes of Sodom and Samaria (as he also mentions that he will restore the fortunes of other nations in Jeremiah – the Moabites for example in Jer 48:47), he does not have in mind a universalistic view pointing at a post-resurrection future. The picture he is painting is the salvation of the Gentiles and the restoration of believing Israel – accomplished by the New Covenant. This whole chapter is envisioning the redemptive work of the coming of the Messiah. It all points toward Jesus and the fulfillment of the covenant. The key verse in this is v.60 “yet I will remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish with you an everlasting covenant.”
So the “restoration” in view here is not about a post-mortem restoration. Peter says otherwise – that Sodom was destroyed and any future earthly, actual restoration of the city is far from his mind. By using the words, “condemned to extinction”, any notion that he had in mind of the restoration that universalism suggests is out of the question and is ruled out as a possibility. This is supported by the fact that he uses this event as an example of the day of judgement – “what is coming to the ungodly”. He uses a past event that was understood to bring understanding to a future event that needed explanation. (And of course Jude collaborates the example given by Peter).
So if the word greek word for eternal, does mean an Age… then there will be indeed an age of hell.
Shitty part is… there wil also be no eternal LIFE either. Bir only an AGE!
So we can DIE again after that AGE and history will repeat itself. There will be pain, sorrow and wheeping again and Jesus has to save us again from death.
Weid explanation fellahs. No offence, but it smells like deception…
Hey Marcel, thanks for commenting. Remember that our goal here is less to paint a complete picture and more to demonstrate the holes in the picture people already think is complete.
We tend to have a binary outlook on any given concept. Either it means “A” or “B”. So in this context, we think it needs to fit neatly into some finite time period that makes sense to us or forevermore. But these aren’t the only options, and indeed, when it comes to the nature of time and God’s interaction with it, we know virtually nothing. What is the Age to come? Is it on Earth, in Heaven, throughout the unbelievably vast Cosmos?
The word here meaning “the Age” can go in so many directions. We honestly have no clue what God has in store for us. But after the evidence laid out in our 2 articles on Hell, I’m very confident eternal torment is not included in those plans.
That is a very dangerous and slippery slope to only look at the “holes” rather than paint a clear complete picture. This allows for pretext of thought and misguided thinking to the reader.
To respond to your comment: “But this is NOT the God we see in the Bible. God’s heart is ALWAYS to restore. We see this time and time and time again throughout His dealings with Israel.”
-In light of your quote, what is your opinion and interpretation of Romans 9 and more specifically in verses 22-23. 22 “What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
I also want to point out John 17: 9 as more of a side note: “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.” I will let this verse speak for itself.
To your comment: “What this means is that any time we see the term “eternal life” in the New Testament, it should actually be translated as “life of the Age”.”
-Why would Christ come to bare the full wrath of God as a result of our sin, when the joy set before Him ( Hebrews 12: 2) was merely that His bride would only be with Him and worshiping Him for an “age”. What your implying is that our soul is not eternal and doesn’t live on for ever, but rather it is defined by an “age”. ( however you want to define it). If we really only live on with our souls for an “age”, you are simply saying that Christ came to pay the unthinkable sacrifice so that His people could be redeemed for a period of time. What happens after this period of time if it really is not an infinite amount of time? If its not an infinite amount of time, there will ultimately be an end point regardless of how you want to define it. ( lets even say after a billion of years in heaven). You say in your above comment that “these aren’t the only options”, however the reality is that infinity by its definition is endless or without end. We will in fact be with God for an infinite period or a period that ends. That is a stretch to say that we shouldn’t look at this as a binary a or b, when the very opposite of an end period is one that doesn’t end. Therefore, if time for His children has an end point, God would have to then bring an end to our soul. Why would Christ redeem us so that in a “billion” years, He destroys us. This is crazy logic I am extrapolating here in this example, but is used to prove a point. It seems silly to conclude that God would really only want us to worship Him for a fixed amount of time, versus an infinite amount of time. That doesn’t align with your view on the nature of God you describe here in this article.
Another point to bring up is what is written in Romans 8: 16-17. “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”
If we are heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, how can we only share in His temporal blessings, but not eternal blessings. I am sure you would never imply that Christ will only exist for the same “age” as we do. Therefore if we are fellow heirs with Christ and Christ is eternal, we will live with Him and worship Him forever with no end.
It is comforting to interpret the use of the translated word “eternal life” and replace it with “the age”, when referring to hell. However, this opens up the flood gates of inequity. This theology strips Christ of His Glory, especially if His Kingdom of Heaven is comprised of His redeemed people who merely worship Him for an “age”.
Lastly, I think your point you make in the previous article: ” The English language is often very limited when trying to express certain concepts”, is one of the greater points I could make for how possible it would be for you to be wrong in your interpretation for how the writer was using the Greek words for aiōnios. You shouldn’t assume that the Greek words used in the original manuscripts correlate to the translations you use here and the conclusions you make.
I say all these things in love; wanting truth to prevail and hearts to surrender to the true God, rather than a god we form to make easier to love and follow and adore.
This response expresses my thoughts better than I ever could. My initial worry is that you reference only one source for this new definition. Why should we believe one professor over the several hundred that collaborated to write the translations, all of which (that I have found) universally acknowledge the use of ‘eternal’?
Hey Taylor & Ric, thanks for your comments.
I think the main point being addressed here is my interpretation of “eternal”. The reality is that even scholars who argue this word SHOULD be translated “eternal” admit that the closest literal translation is “from age to age”.
I should have been more clear about this in the article. This isn’t a debated subject. What IS debated is what “age to age” means. So the evangelical scholars responsible for most modern translations of the Bible feel that “age to age” equals “eternal”, because that contextually fits their paradigm of God.
But many scholars stop and say, “Wait, why aren’t we translating this literally?” because the literal translation is “age to age”. And when we step outside of our ideological boxes and stop thinking in binary – eternal vs not-eternal – we realize that the concept of ages opens up numerous non-binary possibilities on what “eternal life”, “the age to come” and the afterlife actually mean.
In terms of the verses about wrath you mentioned Taylor, I’m not really trying to address every single verse in the Bible. As I already showed in this article, there are 21 verses that explicitly talk about the wicked being destroyed, there are 21 verses that explicitly talk about all people being saved, and yes, there are verses that suggest torment, although very few explicit ones.
The Bible can’t be fit together as a series of 23,000 absolutely true verses. We tend to miss the forest through the trees because of our idea of inerrancy. But that’s another discussion.
Christ did not bare the wrath of God, it was the wrath of man which killed him.
Having read the article and already commented, here is my simplistic analysis:
Our purpose in this life is to fall into a relationship with Jesus and in doing so, obey Him in all things. This also means leading others into a relationship with the Lord. Whether or not there is a hell shouldn’t be something to overly ponder if we are walking in His Will.
Dear sir. ( and I do mean it)
Why is it that the western church is so passionate in believing eternel hell etc. ?
And maybe the Protestant side even more than the RC.
I’m not sure Piet. I think it might have something to do with the legalism involved. People spend their whole lives behaving a certain way and being miserable as they do it. They want to believe there was a reason for it all – that they will end up better off than those who didn’t “follow God” and perhaps enjoyed their lives more.
Strong’s Number: G166
Greek: aionios
Describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tts 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom. 16:26, and the other sixty-six places in the NT.
The predominant meaning of aionios, that in which it is used everywhere in the NT, save the places noted above, may be seen in 2Cr 4:18, where it is set in contrast with proskairos, lit., ‘for a season,’ and in Phm 1:15, where only in the NT it is used without a noun. Moreover is it used of persons and things which are in their nature endless, as e.g.; of God Rom 16:26; of His power, 1Ti 6:16, and of His glory, 1Pe 5:10; of the Holy Spirit, Hbr 9:14; of the redemption effected by Christ, Hbr 9:12, and of the consequent salvation of men, Hbr 5:9, as well as his future rule, 2Pe 1:1, which is elsewhere declared to be without end, Luke 1:33; of the life received by those who believe in Christ, Jhn 3:16, concerning whom He said, they shall never perish,’ Jhn 10:28, and of the resurrection body, 2Cr 5:1, elsewhere said to be ‘immortal,’ 1Cr 15:53, in which that life will be finally realized, Mat 25:46; Tts 1:2.
Aionios is also used of the sin that “hath never forgiveness,’ Mar 3:29, and of the judgement of God, from which there is no appeal, Hbr 6:2, and of the fire, which is one of its instruments, Mat 18:8; 25:41; Jud 1:17, and which is elsewhere said to be ‘unquenchable,’ Mar 9:43. The use of aionios here shows that the punishment referred to in 2Th 1:9, is not temporary, but final, and, accordingly, the phraseology shows that its purpose is not remedial but retributive.
“The word punishment used here is iskolasis, which can also be translated as ‘correction’…” This is dangerous wording- “can also be translated” does not equate “in actuality,” or “most definitely means.” In fact, a majority of this post and its counterpart seems, to me, to bash mainstream Christian theology in hopes to introduce a partially skewed and incomplete thought which has no basis in Christianity.
Apologies if this sounds harsh, that is not the intention.
Hi Humble T., no apologies required! I appreciate your comment and your willingness to disagree without including personal insults or wild assumptions about the author.
I’m not a Greek expert, but I have spent some time researching the thoughts and writings of Greek experts on these topics. What I’ve found is that in most disputes, the word comes down to two diverging translations. More traditional scholars tend to hold to the Strong’s lexicon, which is rooted in Evangelical tradition, while more progressive scholars tend to reference more updated lexicons, such as the TDNT, that often facilitate divergent viewpoints.
As best as I can tell, it seems agreed upon that the most eternal-like, literal translation of Aionios is “from age-to-age”. This has been traditionally translated as “eternal”, which might seem to be synonymous with “from age to age”, but it isn’t. It demonstrates something more complex than a homogeneous, never-ending stretch called eternity. I wanted to point that out to the reader, and I simplified it to the possible translation “the length of the age”, because I wanted to demonstrate an alternative view from the one that’s been hammered in to Evangelical America.
To address your other point: “This is dangerous wording- “can also be translated” does not equate “in actuality,” or “most definitely means.” In fact, a majority of this post and its counterpart seems, to me, to bash mainstream Christian theology in hopes to introduce a partially skewed and incomplete thought which has no basis in Christianity. ”
ALL of mainstream theology is based on translations that “can also be translated….”. Whether we want to admit it or not, just as the Bible was written by humans with their own biases toward God’s nature, the Bible was also translated by humans with their own biases toward God’s nature. I think we can see the evidence of this in the thousands of denominations and streams that believe the Bible to be inerrant while also vehemently disagreeing with each other on its contents.
I completely understand if you find fault in the analysis I’ve presented here or the conclusions I’ve made, but let’s not pretend that this was all airtight before my article came along. Ideas, doctrines, interpretations, translations, and even the Biblical canon itself have been debated and disputed since the death of Christ. Paul records his own debate with Peter in his writings – two of the first major church leaders.
I’m simply taking disputed translations and presenting the varieties that didn’t make it into the Evangelical-influenced translations – showing people there’s a legitimate alternative to the view of God they were handed and told not to question growing up.
I thank you for your response.
I will take the liberty of assuming that by “progressive” you mean in its ideal form- favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas. Rather than its alternative- an increased or cumulative step in the “right” or “correct” direction.
Here’s the conundrum, friend: aionion or aion (its root) quite literally translates into the definition that this article reputes as “eon.” You are quite correct in that. However, aionios, its contextual (important) counterpart (whose root, too is aion) is found more than sixty times in the NT in the places noted above and others. And each time it denotes the concept of eternity, not age or “length of an age.” Unless, of course you consider any of the attributes of God to be not of an eternal nature, or His promise of eternal life for those who believe. Why, then, would we take the liberty of changing its definition- it seems a bit counterproductive, convenient and frankly, divisive (though clearly, not intentional). I could have skewed my definition of you using the words “progressive” scholar to mean your thinking was more correct than mine (and therefore taken offense), instead I understood that you meant not to insult my intelligence, but rather to take a particular stance on the issue. In this same token, we have legitimate (overwhelming) evidence to suggest that aionios in these contexts means eternal or eternity.
“ALL of mainstream theology is based on translations that ‘can also be translated…'” – and whether we like it or not, all of Scripture was written by humans who were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you do not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, then this conversation cannot continue on the basis of Scripture, but on your own mind and will. Perhaps 2Tim 3:16 and Prv 3:5 will be of assistance there.
Whether there are factions- (there is a definite problem with divisions in the Body)- to reiterate the Apostle Paul’s own words to the Church in Corinth- “Is Christ divided?”
The objective of good science, philosophy and theology is always to get to the heart of the matter, or the best possible explanation. Ultimately, this “legitimate alternative” to the status quo, takes away the glory of Christ made manifest in His sacrifice*. Hell is not convenient, I understand. But the best possible explanation is not to replace it . To talk around it. Or to exclude it. This conversation reduces to faith. Not in man’s ability to interpret, but in God’s ability to make manifest truth despite man’s infallibility.
*Ultimately, the viewpoint that Hell does not exist or is not eternal does not consolidate with the rest of Biblical narrative. There would be no need for Christ’s sacrifice were Hell not eternal. His sacrifice does not facilitate God’s favor, grace, or mercy- it purchases it. Hell is not punishment, it is just.
Consider this- were we all ultimately reconciled to God, what point would there be to live life within the confines of spiritual morality?
Here’s the thing, “age-to-age” could mean one of two things
If you have three ages, then it could mean from the ending of Age 1 to the start of Age 3 (so just a single age period). It could also mean all three of those ages – in other words every age, or eternal.
I’d of said it were the second option, otherwise why not just say it plainly like in other areas that say “for a season”? Especially given that in order for time to exist God has to first be outside of time – just as when we build a computer the clock of that computer is what we define it to be entirely separate from our own state of being.
The other aspect is if God will say to some “depart from me I never knew you” then that would indicate that knowing God and vice versa is a prerequisite for getting into heaven. If God knowing who you are can only be achieved through repentance and receiving of the Holy Spirit then turning people away would be a death sentence. You can’t know God if he tells you to go away from him, and you can’t get in if you don’t know him.
That’s why it’s imperative that we make a decision now and not later. Because later might never come
@ Jacob
Possibly the most cogent statement describing Christianity and the Bible I have read to date.
It brings to mind a line from the film Life of Brian where Brian is addressing a small group of people while trying to hide froim the Romans and one of the listeners calls out:
”He’s making it up as he goes along!”
Excellent series. Tons of information I will be able to reference in the future. I’ve thoughly enjoyed it and learned ”stuff” along the way, which is always a bonus.
I agree that the alternate meanings proposed for aionios and iskolasis are not the way that most scholars and the historical church have interpreted them – and – they seem to be used fairly consistently in the NT regardless of context .
Now I don’t feel as if the overall message of Jesus and the scriptures is one that supports eternal conscious torment – I see God more as one who wants to unite everything in Jesus and that means making sin and rebellion to go away permanently rather than have it hang around – but arriving at that conclusion by way of minority interpretations of two ancient Greek words may not be the best way to go about it.
Hey Jeff, that’s fair, although I wouldn’t say that the 8,000 words we’ve presented on this topic come down to 2 Greek words.
My generation has grown up with an absolute narrative of God and told not to question it. We’ve been told this is always how the Church believed it, this is the only way to interpret it in scripture, and this is the only belief system legitimate Christians subscribe to.
But none of this is true. Evangelical doctrine built America, and as such, it has had the power to make it’s version THE version, while disparaging those who came before and those are coming after.
What we are doing here is dismantling the false security of these arguments and presenting alternatives. In some cases, we word things a bit more strongly than perhaps the argument deserves, but the point isn’t to present another absolute narrative, but rather, to disrupt the false absolutes, and give people the opportunity to find Truth in the aftermath.
I enjoyed this article. Good work on it.
I had never thought of the gnashing of teeth and weeping in the way that you described it before. The way that Jesus interacted with the religious elite and the downtrodden were quite a bit different. Along with that, Jesus’ strongest words of judgement were to the religious elite, not those that would normally be considered sinful. I found that section particularly insightful.
That said, now I have even more questions to push back a bit with. What about Old Testament depictions of judgment? While I wholeheartedly believe that all Scripture points to Jesus, I also am hesitant to disregard the teachings of the Old Testament. Jesus was thoroughly Jewish in his background as was Paul. More than anything else, they re-defined Israel and faithfulness to the Hebrew God, rather than doing away completely with the Jewish way of thinking.
Keep asking questions and poking holes!
Hey Daniel, those are some great questions! You may have already seen this, but our latest article deals with OT judgment a bit – http://www.brazenchurch.com/jesus-violence-old-testament/
I really liked this article in the series, however I have a bit of an issue on how you deal with ἀπόληται (which by the way you spelt wrong, also Luke has απολωλως according to your own link source, which is a different word)
Just because the word has a meaning in Luke, you can’t use that as proof that John has been mistranslated. First of all ἀπόλλυμαι did indeed mean perish / die in Greek, as well as other meanings; so it could be used to mean different things, especially if John did not know about Luke. Secondly there seems to be no information either in the article or the linked source on whether there is any evidence ἀπόλλυμαι was used with any preferred meaning in the Hellenistic era.
The argument about that does make sense only because it seems to be in accordance to other NT instances, which one would expect if John’s highly theological / mystical gospel did indeed conserve a faithful memory of the man Jesus. But take that away and it would stop working.
I am more or less a Universalist, so the only reason I’m criticising that bit is because I want to be thorough, and because I am a bit of a geek who studied Classical Greek at school for 5 years…
Hey Simone, thanks for commenting! If I’ve posted something incorrect, I absolutely want to fix it. I am definitely NOT a Greek expert by any means. I’ve simply pulled from experts and attempted to make their arguments more easily comprehensible for the average reader.
Here’s where I sourced my comments on the John/Luke word – http://www.biblemaths.com/pdf_olethros.pdf – it was my understanding from this study that the two words were the same. If that’s not the case, I’ll definitely need to change that.
Hi!
So for a matter of accuracy:
John 3:16 – αποληται
Luke 15:32 – απολωλως
So you should probably change it as something like:
” we find in these verses that the same verb ἀπόλλυμι is used in both John 3:16…
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (αποληται), but have eternal life.
… and in the story of the Prodigal Son’s return in Luke 15:32,
But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost (απολωλως) and has been found.”
***
Other than that the original argument is unfortunately quite weak, as I said (really up to you whether to keep it or not) because:
1) the verb in both forms means: lose oneself, perish, die (so both translations)
2) Luke and John might mean different things using the same verb
Also I see that pamphlet uses Strong’s concordance as proof of meaning, which is something anyone with some knowledge of New Testament Greek would probably find a bit lazy…
And I could not find anything on what kind of relevant education Peter Bluer might have.
I myself am not a New Testament Greek expert, but I have studied classical Greek at school and have some doubts on how reliable that source is…
Thanks Simone, we are trying to save up enough for an updated lexicon/software combo, but for now, Strongs is all we have.
Any suggestions?
For now you can try Perseus (perseus.tufts.edu), it’s free but it only covers Latin and Ancient Greek, and it is focused more on their classical use rather than NT / Church use.
On the plus side it allows you to insert a word and see what it is derived from, for example I used it to confirm that αποληται was indeed from that verb, since it has been a while since I studied Greek…
If I remember correctly someone who does theology academically once recommended BibleWorks ($389). They don’t have a demo that I can see on their website.
There’s an apparently free software called theWord which may be of interest for your work.
I have not tried either, I usually rely on Perseus most of the time.
So it’s ok to do bad/evil things because if there’s no hell why would I be afraid to die nor care for the love of God….??? Don’t you think it’d be boring living in heaven because we’d have conquered the evil …….coz as you know, without having something to worry about how can we be even happy there in heaven….
So I use to think, if that’s really the case, how do people have the feeling to want to go to heaven??
Or are they just trying to impress people around bcoz, knowing that he’d not enter hell if he still do good things (which naturally human don’t want to but loves to do bad things) just to go to heaven…I mean it’s crazy.
Sorry, if I go against your trust but honestly I feel more like to just die than go to heaven.
To be honest, just the thought of non-existence is scary for a lot of people. So many think, “If there’s no afterlife, what’s the point of life?” It’s almost astounding the amount of people, religious and non-religious, who adopt that position, as if impermanence makes things worthless.
Also, you aren’t really doing something good if you’re doing it to avoid hell. You’re just acting in your own best interest at that point. E.g: I don’t steal because the things I’d take don’t belong to me and I didn’t earn or make them, not because I’d go to jail if I did. Hell, I can think of a million and one ways to get away with stealing, but I don’t anyway. Living on the principle regardless of the punishment or lack-thereof is the mark of being good (think maintaining your belief in spite of persecution for it).
The issue of sin seems to be prevalent in your last 2 posts though you haven’t really expanded into how sin plays into this whole issue of the afterlife for all of us, if at all.
Could you provide a biblical definition of sin for us to consider?
Blessings
Thank you so much for these articles!
I have a question. How does this apply now in the present?
How does this way of God dealing with sin apply now.
What would that look like?
There are many many things that have risen up from religion and a wrong belief in God. Just like from those religious leaders in the bible. So does God still use this for of setting people right today? Does he let them destroy and give them chances until he comes to put an end to what they think they believe? Is he still done that now? Jesus and the revelation of Jesus would do that throughout the ages. One religious group destroys, thinking he’s doing somthing right, and then the truth those in truth (in Christ) rise up to show people truth and put and end to the wrong religious beliefs again? Is it finished cause a ultimate truth was revealed that will keep concurring over things that will rise up? Do we still get the bulk of the abuse (those standing for truth) until the end of each age comes up and truth prevails again? Not to sound selfish, but if that’s the case, that kind of sucks for us, dosn’t it? There is one difference though and that’s the power of the Holy Spirit we have released to us in knowing and having this truth now.
I guess I am wondering… are we protected now, or are we still just an out of place people mixed in a crazy world of beliefs where we are going to get attacked and killed until God reveals a better truth over and over again?
Thanks so much for looking at this question.
Bless you!
Jacob , quick Question on your Statement about aiōnios meaning And End of a Age or length of Age.
The Strongs shows this
without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
without beginning
without end, never to cease, everlasting
The same word is used to Describe Eternal Life in
Matthew 19:29.
So My question is (sincerely) If what your saying is true that the Strong ‘s is “outdated Greek interpretation” and the word actually Means End of age or for a Age
Does that Mean our Eternal Life is no longer Eternal??
Help Me understand, Im sure I had to miss something …
Best definition of sin falling short of the glory of god.
I’ve got this series in PDF via email and am saving it to give to friends and family who are most interested in debating me on this topic. Growing up in the Assembly of God tradition, I am loved by many who fear that my changing view on hell (actually, my changing views on just about everything concerning my faith) are damning me and my children to it’s eternal, firery torment. I’ve done my best to relay the vast amount of research I’ve done over the past few years, but this series is excellently written, so it’s my go-to for those with questions and rebuttals. Thank you for your hard work! It’s been a huge blessing!
A key perspective needed on many of these biblical passages is that they are rooted in an honor/shame context, while we in the West live in a guilt/innocence context.
If we approach these texts without understanding how honor/shame based language works, we will typically misinterpret descriptions of intense shame as descriptions of literal pain. Thus, throughout most of church history, it was simply assumed that if you’re experiencing pain forever, you must by necessity be in existence forever.
However, the conversation radically shifts when we reconsider that you *don’t* have to be in existence forever to produce shame. I think the end of Isaiah 66 points to this.
Excellent as usual! Fire and darkness definitely represent many things, such as pain, loneliness and separation from God, ITs love and principles (God isn’t male of course). Thank you so much for the translations of eternal and perish, which i was gonna look up after your Part 1. I have felt for quite awhile that it could be said of someone, “wow s/he is living an eternal kind of life” or as you alluded to “a life for the ages” – that is, they are living according to eternal principles, not stuck on earthly things.
It seems like all of this fire and brimstone originated with not only with people who desire retribution (i know they call it “justice” but is eternal pain really justice for someone who just couldn’t “get it” in the 80 years they lived here, like my very good grandfather?) and revenge, possibly because they are resentful of everyone who didn’t think they had to obey the rules like they did; and was institutionalized and made worse by the “church” and its desire to align and control people.
I understand that people want punishment for people who did horrible things to others during their lives. I feel like it has to be that when we die, if we have souls they know and feel all the pain they caused, and also we all see how bad WE were as well and understand the issues we all had to deal with. Even if it took Hitler 10 trillion years of massive pain to pay for all the damage he did, that’s still not an eternity.
Separation from God would be a person’s own choice, and its own punishment, not something that God has to DO or apply. It seems to me that many (most?) times Jesus says “a person will be X” not “God will do X to them,” in other words, what happens is a natural consequence of our actions.
My name is Alan Finch. I became a Christian 42 years ago.
It is important to understand that the Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire. The Biblical phrase “Lake of Fire” is symbolic for a Spiritual Lake of Fire which is representative of the FIRE of God’s Spirit that is going to do a transforming work of “Divine Purification” in each individual that comes before the Great White Throne Judgment. This transforming work from God’s Spirit will give these individuals a full understanding of God’s Boundless Love for them and the entire human race. (Note: The Scriptures do not reveal how long that this process will take)
I have written a 26 page article that Biblically deals with this subject extensively. If anyone would like a copy, feel free to e-mail me and ask for a copy and I will e-mail you a copy.
Candy33alan@aol.com
To all of you lacking a proper fear of God and belief in his promises of eternal hell: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” – Revelation 22:18-19
Directly, Christ tells us to NOT ADD OR TAKE AWAY from His Word, which is eternal life as well as hellfire. If you do not take back your misinformation, you too will join the false prophets in the lake of fire. I think that verse was quite clear. Read the rest of the book yourself to see all of its other plagues. Christ told us all that hellfire is real and everlasting; why would you believe some guy on the internet rather than the one true Son?
One does not just cease to exist – God deals with sin accordingly once we leave this world. All go to either hell or heaven in the end (paradise for those dead in Christ awaiting ressurection as well). I will remind you of the words of Christ that the deceiving author of this post “took away from”: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” – Matthew 10:28
God doesn’t just continually bless those who don’t make it into the Kingdom. He withdraws all love from them.
Firstly that scripture quote from Revelation about adding or taking away from scripture, only refers only to the book of Revelation (not the entirety of the bible).
When Revelation was written, the bible hadn’t even been fully compiled yet, that came hundreds of years later.
Secondly the author of this article is not adding or subtracting anything from the bible physically, more offering an alternative interpretation to what is a “mainstream” interpretation (which by the way everyone reads the word from a starting point of their own biases…like can tell your coming from a controlling hellfire and brimestone upbringing).
Thirdly, read the authors first part of this series in terms of your quote from Matthew.
Finally for your last paragraph Paul summarised in Romans 8:38-39
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future,(A) nor any powers,(B) 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord”.
Its amazing how Christians like yourself have fully missed out on the core of Jesus’ teachings, which is to love God and our neighbours…even to pray for our enemies. Wishing judgement on those who have interpreted scriptures differently to yourself and rebuking them to “hell” just shows the Pharisees are alive and kicking 🙂
Praying you’ll receive a revelation.
Yes what bible has all these changes in it, that I should buy? Or don’t they have a new version of the woods that you are talking about , in a new up to date bible , Please let me know if there is a Bible available with all your explanations and there.
People who make changes are as evil as the china who changed the Bible. Hell is where the dead are, and seeds and roots are. Jesus was in hell when he was in the tomb. The soul that sins it shall die
Seeds and roots are in hell. Jesus was in hell when he was inside a tomb. The unseen Father preached to lost souls in Satan’s prison. 1 Perter 3:19 – 20, KJV. The dead know not anything being in the earth. Hell is under the earth. God will purify the earth when his light shines on the earth. they ar4e romans 1:25 people who turn God’s word into a lie. They turn into unfriendly lying Romans 1:29 – 32 people, who do bitter things to people calling it sweet. Those people allow the root of bitterness to spring up in them, defiling many.
If hell isn’t real, is Heaven? If not, is there even an afterlife?
People have hell all wrong. Heaven is Christs loving mind in your mind. The absence of that will be hell in your mind, setting you up to die forever. Christ is life. Satan is not life.
Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this—there are a million comments and I can’t read them all:
You say in the article that any time we see the term “eternal life,” it is better translated as “life of the age.” Does this imply that Jesus did not promise eternal life at all? Does this mean that when we die, we remain dead? If so, how is that reconciled with the idea you previously mentioned that there is a difference between eternal “punishment” and eternal “punishing?” Specifically, if the eternal punishment is simply death, how is that a different fate than anyone else’s if there is no eternal life?
The eternal infinite age before creation and the final age, world without end, will have both been outside of time, from everlasting to everlasting.
Proverbs 8:20-23 KJV
I (Wisdom) lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Matthew 28:20 KJV
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Ephesians 3:21 KJV
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Time is the measurement of change. Upon death the heart of a man becomes the whole of the man. You’ll notice with the rich man and Lazarus that while the rich man asked for water for relief and asked to warn his brothers he never questioned his being in torment. God’s judgments are just and even those in Hell will accept it.
1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I know that this article is very old, but the biggest question I am left with after reading this is if all mentions of eternal life in the new testament refer to “life of an age,” does heaven exist? Interesting read, gave me lots to think about.
@ Jacob
Possibly the most cogent statement describing Christianity and the Bible I have read to date.
It brings to mind a line from the film Life of Brian where Brian is addressing a small group of people while trying to hide froim the Romans and one of the listeners calls out:
”He’s making it up as he goes along!”
Excellent series. Tons of information I will be able to reference in the future. I’ve thoughly enjoyed it and learned ”stuff” along the way, which is always a bonus.
there is eternal death. death is opposite of life. Jesus promised ETERNAL LIFE to those who follow Him. I will take that:)
Seeds and roots are in hell. Jesus was in hell when he was inside a tomb. The unseen Father preached to lost souls in Satan’s prison. 1 Perter 3:19 – 20, KJV. The dead know not anything being in the earth. Hell is under the earth. God will purify the earth when his light shines on the earth.
Seeds and roots are in hell. Jesus was in hell when he was inside a tomb. The unseen Father preached to lost souls in Satan’s prison. 1 Perter 3:19 – 20, KJV. The dead know not anything being in the earth. Hell is under the earth. God will purify the earth when his light shines on the earth. they are romans 1:25 people, who turn God’s word into a lie. They turn into unfriendly lying Romans 1:29 – 32 people, who call bitter things, sweet. Those people allow the root of bitterness to spring up in them, defiling many.