Hell is not a Biblical concept.
Much of the Bible is debatable. Much of the Bible is open to numerous interpretations. There are many theological stances that can be convincingly argued both for AND against.
The modern concept of Hell as a place of eternal conscious torment is not one of them. Today, we are going to look at every mention of “Hell” in the Bible, and we are going to demonstrate this conceptual staple of Western Christianity to be virtually untenable.
But don’t get me wrong… I believe in Hell.
I’ve read extensively about it. I’ve heard first-hand accounts of it. I’ve even caught glimpses of it myself.
As humans, we seem to be fantastic at creating hell. We sow it into our own lives and the lives of others and then watch as it’s reaped around the world.
Hell is the terror of the refugee. It’s the grief of surviving family members, the despair of the abused spouse, the self-hatred of the neglected child.
But it’s also more than that.
Hell is the disillusioned numbness of the soldier. It’s the hopelessness of the drug addict. It’s the perpetual frustration, anger, and self-loathing of the abusing spouse.
Hell can be found everywhere we look. It can be seen in both the eyes of the oppressed and the eyes of the oppressor. Humanity doesn’t need to be made aware of Hell. We are all too aware of it already.
What we need is good news.
Fortunately, Jesus came to bring just that. He took human form, experienced the joys and hellish torments of our existence, and introduced us to a benevolent Father. He came to show us the way of life – the path through this hell – and when he left, he announced the arrival of our personal guide, the Holy Spirit, who would help us navigate this path of life.
For awhile after Christ’s departure, Christians were carriers of life – evangelists of the Good News. But somewhere along the way, a perverse lie crept into our understanding of God, a lie so horrid, it depicts God as perpetrating evil the Earth’s most depraved minds wouldn’t even consider.
Today, instead of 2 Billion carriers of the Good News, much of Christendom is preoccupied with prophesying a terror of unimaginable proportions.
Hell: a place where people are consciously tormented for all eternity.
Fortunately for humanity, not only does this place not exist, it can’t even be defended in Scripture.
The Word “Hell” Isn’t Even Found In The Bible
Well… it might be found in your Bible. Let me elaborate.
Most Biblical translations don’t contain the word “Hell” even a single time.
The King James Bible, which is widely considered to be one of the most inaccurate translations, while also being a fixture in traditionalist Christian circles, contains the most mentions of “hell” at 54 occurrences. More accurate translations like the NASB and even the highly popular NIV show the word “hell” occurring between 13-14 times, ALL of which are found in the New Testament.
We’re going to look at each of these occurrences, but before we do, I’d like to put these numbers into perspective. Let’s look at how often more commonly used words are mentioned in the Bible:
- Heaven – 644 mentions
- Father – 944 mentions
- Evil – 657 mentions
- Law – 599 mentions
- Soul – 496 mentions
- Death – 456 mentions
- Judgement – 344 mentions
- Kingdom – 384 mentions
- Sin – 441 mentions
So just to review, we have Judgement mentioned 344 times, Sin mentioned 441 times, and Death mentioned 456 times, and yet we only see Hell mentioned 14 times in accurate translations.
Doesn’t that seem weird?
If hell is such a central part of sin, judgment, and death, wouldn’t it get talked about at least half as often as these associated words? At this rate, Google wouldn’t even know to associate hell with these other words.
Furthermore, IF the common Evangelic view of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment is accurate, wouldn’t that warrant significantly more discussion than something like poverty, which is talked about over 2,000 times?
If God is actually planning on PERPETUALLY ROASTING BILLIONS OF PEOPLE, allowing them to permanently agonize for all of eternity… isn’t that a bit more pressing of a discussion than the 1203 words that are addressed more frequently?
Yes, I did the math, and I did it based on the KJV, giving Hell the benefit of the MOST possible occurrences. Even with 4 times the mentions of most translations, there are 1,203 words used more frequently.
Is God just super casual about being the cruelest, most perversely genocidal maniac in history? Or did we get the story wrong.
If you are a good Christian, like I used to be, your first question is going to be a very valid one, “Doesn’t Jesus speak about Hell?” The simple answer to that question is “no”, but in order to make that claim, I’m going to have to get my Greek on.
There Are 4 Distinct Words Translated As “Hell”
Most of the confusion around Hell starts with translation error. There are four separate Hebrew and Greek words which are translated into the single English word “Hell”, despite having drastically different meanings.
- Sheol (Hebrew)
- Hades (Greek)
- Tartarus (Greek)
- Gehenna (Greek)
The English language is often very limited when trying to express certain concepts. A perfect Biblical example of this is the multiple Greek words translated to the single English word “Love”. Agape is a special version of love that speaks about God’s love toward humanity. Phileo speaks about brotherly love and Eros refers to sexual love or desire.
And just like “love”, the English word “hell” is unilaterally translated from the Greek and Hebrew words Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus, each of which have different meanings.
1. Sheol (H7585)
שׁאל שׁאול
she’ôl she’ôl
sheh-ole’, sheh-ole’
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: – grave, hell, pit.
2. Hades (G86)
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah’-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: – grave, hell.
3. Gehenna (G1067)
γέεννα
geenna
gheh’-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem
4. Tartarus (G5020)
ταρταρόω
tartaroō
tar-tar-o’-o
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: – cast down to hell.
Below, I’ve listed the full 13 times “Hell” is used in the NASB translation of the Bible. Sheol and Hades are always correctly translated as “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations, which is why you don’t see any references below. I’ve included those words in our discussion simply because they will come up incorrectly as “Hell” in the KJV.
You’ll notice that NONE of the above 4 words actually translate to Hell. The closest is Hades, which is derived from Greek mythology and is never actually translated to “Hell” in academically accepted translations. Sheol and Hades are both always translated as “death” or “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations. And as we are about to see, neither Tartarus nor Gehenna can be correctly translated as “Hell” either.
In other words, “Hell” is NOT actually in the Bible.
But a claim like this warrants a worthy defense, and that’s why we are going to look at EVERY single time the word “Hell” is used in the Bible.
Using the NASB, we see 13 references:
- Matthew 5:22 – Gehenna
- Matthew 5:29 – Gehenna
- Matthew 5:30 – Gehenna
- Matthew 10:28 – Gehenna
- Matthew 18:9 – Gehenna
- Matthew 23:15 – Gehenna
- Matthew 23:33 – Gehenna
- Mark 9:43 – Gehenna
- Mark 9:45 – Gehenna
- Mark 9:47 – Gehenna
- Luke 12:5 – Gehenna
- James 3:6 – Gehenna
- 2 Peter 2:4 – Tartarus
You will notice then that the full conversation of “Hell” comes down to 12 Gehenna mentions and 1 mention of Tartarus.
Tartarus is not a normal Greek word. Like Hades, it’s the name of a place/person in Greek mythology, appearing in writing 700 years before Christ as part of the Greek poet Hesiod’s Theogony. It denotes a dark place below even Hades, and accordingly, is the only one of our 4 words to have “eternal” torment inherently linked to it.
Even if you want to use Greek mythology to defend your views of God, 2 Peter 2:4 isn’t talking about people. It’s talking about where God sent fallen angels.
So if you’re keeping track, this leaves us with only ONE single word on which to base our Biblical analysis of the word “Hell”.
Gehenna.
Gehenna – A Historic Place of Perpetual Burning
Gehenna accounts for 12 of the 13 Hell mentions, and most importantly, it comprises 100% of Jesus’ alleged references to “Hell”.
So what is Gehenna?
Its a valley. A literal valley. A physical, geographic location. The Valley of Hinom. In fact, here’s what this valley (and apparently Hell) looks like today.
There it is. And look, passing right through the middle of it is Gey Ben Hinom St.
The typical response here is that Jesus was using the valley of Hinom figuratively to mean our modern concept of Hell. But figurative to who?
It really doesn’t matter what this valley means to us today. Jesus wasn’t speaking to us. He was speaking to Jews who lived 2,000 years ago.
So the real question is, what did Gehenna mean to the Jews of Jesus’ day?
The section of this valley referred to as “Gehenna” was well known throughout Israel as an evil and dark place, used for a variety of evil acts throughout Israel’s history. In the time of Hosea, the rebellious Israelites committed child sacrifice there to honor the pagan god Molech (Molek), as seen in 2 Chron 28:3.
Moreover, he burned incense in the valley of Ben-hinnom and burned his sons in fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD had driven out before the sons of Israel.
Later, in 2 Kings 23:10, it says that King Josiah “desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice their son or daughter in the fire to Molek.”
This valley was known as a place of fiery torture and sacrifices to honor pagan gods. When King Josiah burned down the evil altars, the location remained a site for burning pagan artifacts as the country was purged of idolatry. As time went on and there were no more idols to burn, some accounts suggest the people of Jerusalem began dumping and burning their trash in the valley.
Archaeological evidence suggest the valley was a sewage dump during the time of Jesus, but regardless of its literal usage, we know with certainty that the place itself was historically associated with death and fire. When Jesus refers to Gehenna as “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” in Mark 9, he is making a clear connection to the valley’s historic past, using the language of Isaiah 66:
And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.
When we look at Israel’s history, we see times when Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so much trash, thrown out from the besieged city’s walls, that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.
Sin Invites Hell Into Your Life
Now that we know the historical background of Gehenna, let’s look at what Jesus says about this place.
Matthew 5:30 “And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell (Gehenna).”
Remember that dead bodies were literally thrown into this dump during the time of Isaiah and would be again just 40 years after Jesus spoke these words, when the Romans besieged and destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Rather than discussing the afterlife, Jesus is using a well-known landmark to illustrate how significant and pervasive the destruction of sin is.
Jesus is literally saying that cutting off your hand will be less damaging to your life than a lifestyle of sin.
Some streams of Jewish thought view sin as self-inflicted judgment. In other words, when you sin, you inflict judgment upon yourself. This belief is so sincere, that even today, many orthodox Jews believe the Holocaust was their own fault – that it was their deserved judgment for the sins of Israel and the failure of the Jews to bring the world into the knowledge of Yahweh.
As extreme as that sounds, it gives us insight into the perspective of the Jews that were hearing Jesus’ words. It’s better to lose your eye than to let your eye result in your total self-destruction via sin.
In other words, sin isn’t meaningless; it’s literally inviting Hell into your life.
Jesus is using the most disgusting location in Jerusalem to illustrate how destructive sin is and to encourage his audience to overcome it NOW, so they could freely enjoy abundant life instead of falling into self-destructive patterns.
This same concept presents itself in the only non-Gospel use of Gehenna, found in James 3:6,
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell (Gehenna).
Evil from one body part corrupts the whole body. Sound familiar?
Jesus’ same teaching on cutting off body parts accounts for 6 of our 12 Gospel mentions of Gehenna due to the story being repeated several times in the Gospels. The James reference gives us a 7th, but speaking of sin isn’t the only way Jesus used Gehenna to make a point.
Children Of Destruction
In Matthew 23:15 we see Jesus refer to the Pharisees as “Children of Gehenna” and later in verse 33, queries, “how will you escape being condemned to Gehenna?”
This is telling on multiple levels and serves to handily solidify the argument for Jesus referencing literal Gehenna as a meaningful symbol.
For one, the Pharisees were all about perceived righteousness. They obsessively followed every directive of the Law and made a continuous presentation of their cleanliness and piousness.
And here comes Jesus calling them children of the sewer – telling them that for all their pomp and circumstance, their own “righteousness” won’t be enough to save them from the dung heap. It’s even chronologically possible that some of those listening would have their own dead bodies dumped over the city walls and into Gehenna during the Roman siege to come.
To add a second level of insult, remember that in John 8, the Pharisees responded to Jesus’ teaching by boasting that they were sons of Abraham. They took pride in their lineage, and here is Jesus calling them children of the dung heap.
That’s our 8th and 9th Gehenna references.
But Let’s Assume I’m Wrong
Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that Jesus is using Gehenna as a reference to death and the afterlife. While each of the references to Gehenna can be easily interpreted via our new historical lens, there are a few verses where an argument can conceivably be made otherwise.
The best example is seen in Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:5, (our 10th and 11th Gehenna references) where Jesus says:
“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
Let’s assume here that Jesus is using Gehenna to mean Hell. In this case, we don’t see a picture of eternal torment. Jesus is saying to His audience that they should be more concerned about a God who CAN permanently destroy their body and soul.
Let’s look at that word “destroy”.
Destroy (G622)
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol’-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: – destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
That’s a word of finality. It’s not a word of perpetual torment. The entire idea of perpetual fire comes from the imagery of Gehenna. Even if we interpret Jesus to be figuratively referencing Hell, where’s the eternal suffering of unbelieving humans? Where is that narrative?
Furthermore, if we take this back to Hebrew thought, we see that the Jews believed all good and evil to come from God. Through this lens, it’s far more probable that Jesus is yet again discussing the destruction of sin in Matt 10:28… certainly more probable than believing “I CAN destroy you” means “I’m planning to torture you forever”.
Hell In The Bible: The Conclusion
At this point, we’re left with just one reference from which to derive a doctrine of eternal torture. Matthew 5:22 says,
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery Gehenna.
Yet again, this passage seems to corroborate the idea of a literal Gehenna without suggesting eternal torture. There’s nothing unusual to this other than Jesus raising the standard of what constitutes a punishable offense. Whoever heard of going to court for being angry?
If anything, this points back to our original discussion of Gehenna. Jesus is demonstrating how little it takes for sin to work it’s destruction. Just a bit of unresolved anger, then a deepening of the relational divide, then you are at the point of actually despising your brother and the destruction is already upon you.
Is that a little bit of a stretch? Perhaps.
But certainly not as much of a stretch as looking at these 13 passages and somehow coming away with a God who tortures people mercilessly for all eternity.
???How???
This narrative is not only poor exegesis and bad theology, it also replaces the face of a loving Father (bringing good news) with the nightmarish mask of a merciless tormentor.
If the Bible explicitly supported this idea, we’d be forced to make a more difficult choice. But it doesn’t. Not in the slightest.
For all intents and purposes, the word “Hell” isn’t even in the Bible.
But we aren’t quite done. In Part 2, we look at several passages of scripture that suggest a Hell-like narrative without actually using the word “Hell”. Stuff like the lake of fire, the parable of the sheep and the goats, and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. We’ll use this to round out our discussion of Hell’s absence from the Bible and then examine where the modern concept of Hell actually originated.
If you’d like to download our full series on Hell in PDF form, add your name and email below and we’ll send it your way:
UPDATE: Our original post asserted that Gehenna was a perpetually burning trash heap during the time of Jesus. While several prominent theologians agree with this idea, we discovered after further digging that source materials confirming this view were thinner than we had originally believed. Accordingly, we’ve adjusted the text to provide a more historically defensible position.
Co-written by Jacob McMillen & Josiah Pemberton
I await with interest your follow up article to complete your thinking. But at the moment I would reckon you are pretty much supporting the nihilist argument which as I understand it basically argues that ‘when you’re dead you’re dead’ and I think that most ‘unbelievers’ probably want that to be true!! By the way you’ve not touched on Luke 16:19-31 or Rev 20:7-15 yet, but maybe that’s in the next article?
Hey Bill, I’m primarily concerned with debunking the idea of eternal torment. Where people go from there is up to them. Personally, I find that annihilationism holds the most Biblical evidence, and yet I don’t believe it to be true. I would fall mostly in the inclusionist camp, although I don’t think my position can be adequately defended via Scripture.
And yes, we will be discussing both the passages you mentioned in next week’s article.
You need to meet real Jesus!!! Pray so He will reveal Himself to you and not theology… Lidiya
Look testimony of John Ramirez and many others who truly know Jesus and Darkness of hell . With love in Jesus Christ!!
Hi Lidiya! Unless I’ve been unknowingly chatting with Allah for the last 20 years, I’m pretty confident I do know Jesus. And as I’m sure you can attest, He’s pretty great.
You might find it interesting that theology means the study of God, so if I’m praying for Jesus to reveal Himself to me, in some ways, I’m actually praying for Him to improve my theology.
I think you are probably trying to communicate that study without relationship will lead us in the wrong direction, and I couldn’t agree more! Thanks for sharing!
I like your article and look forward to hearing more. I also wanted to say that it would have been okay had you been talking to Allah the past 20 years. There’s only one God. Allah is the Arabic word for God, like Dieu is the French word or Dios is the Spanish word. I realize there are those who believe that Allah is a different God but he’s not. There’s only one God. Fortunately He/She/It understands All languages.
Mr. McMillen,
Excellent reply to “Lidiya”. You responded humbly and intelligently to a near run-on non-sequitur of a “comment” by an individual whose brief snippets of “Christianese” (see Steve Taylor, “I Want To Be A Clone”) were neither humble nor intelligent.
That in itself is an example of “grace” (in a smaller sense than the overarching subject matter at issue). May Brazen Church be brazenly and virally spread from the lower-left to the upper-right corners of The Web.
Revelation 20:1-15
Read it. It’s quite important if you do not believe in the existence of hell.
Yeah just take hell out of the Bible and it doesn’t exist. When your in hell just say it doesn’t exist. Anyone that listens to you is sad.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. (KJV)
Those who have accepted Jesus into their hearts are the “kings” referred to above… “And hath made us [believers] kings and priests unto God and his Father;…” Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
God conceals much in parables, allegories, metaphors, etc. in His Word. It is our honor {His Kings} to seriously dig and study so that we may understand, in order that the TRUTH may be MOST PRIZED when it is discovered.
All this is the reason for The Urantia Book to be indited to humankind. And then A Course in Miracles and then the Pathwood Foundation lectures — three excellent new spiritual revelations for our times.
What, Jimmy? “All this”?
“is the reason for”?
“The Urantia Book”, “A Course in Miracles”, and “the Pathwood Foundation Lectures”
“to be indited” (you’re being sneaky there, J.C., “indited” is an archaic word)
“to humankind.”?
What?
Maybe I could grok if you define “all this”.
And explain how That is “the reason for” anything.
And specifically, the reason for your 3 cited works (only the 2d of which has any mainstream traction) being written to humankind.
For example, written by whom?
Your last line clearly seems sarcastic … so be it.
Matthew 25:46 (NIV) “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
The bible clearly teaches if you know and accept the free gift and if you don’t you will be condemned forever separated from God. that is the good news that we have a savior who came into the world and became sin for us to free us from this guilt and appease the wrath of God. To say there is no eternal punishment I would have to say why did Christ come and suffer and die. if we don’t have to believe in what he did why did he come. The bible is filled with teachings on the punishment for the wicked. It is disturbing to say the bible doesn’t teach eternal punishment.
The “result” of the punishment IS eternal and irreversible. The wages of sin is DEATH. Final, eternal and without remedy. The punishment accomplishes the eternal result of death
It’s amazing that you reference the results of the Judgement in Mt. 25, but fail to take a look at the criteria the judgement will be based on. I don’t think Jesus had praying the sinners prayer in mind.
Your comment makes it seem like poor Jesus didn’t even know how someone could “ask Him into his/her heart.”
It’s “eternal punishment” NOT “eternal punishing” the scripture is saying cessation of life not eternal torture that’s reserved for the devil Rev. 20:10.
I am late to this conversation for sure but does this mean if I didn’t know and accept the free gift, that I would not be condemned and thus forever separated from God? And all those souls that passed in the all of time before and had not heard the word? What of them?
I’m afraid the best thing that Hell-believers can do is to invent answers to this most excellent question. Could I take the liberty of suggesting a different approach: rather than answer the question, may I refer you to Dr. Don Keathley’s series on YouTube, called ‘Hell’s Illusion’. It’s a good six episodes long but it would be time well spent. Also, I cover the subject to a shallow-ish depth on my blog, ‘Flying in the Spirit’. Here is the link to my ‘Hell Resource Page’ where I talk about this very question:
http://www.flyinginthespirit.cuttys.net/resources/my-hell-resource-page/
Also I do go into a lot of things in the rest of my blog about Heaven and Hell, salvation, judgement and above all the Grace and Love of God, and it’s all good news. I invite you to take a look.
The true translation for “eternal punishment in Matt 25 would be “a period of correction” The word “punishment” in Matt 25:46 is “Kolasis” which should be translated as correction, not punishment
Jacob, I find it interesting that you don’t think inclusion can be adequately defended with scripture. It seems so perfectly clear to me. And I use the KJV almost exclusively, for studying, which your article labels “one of the most inaccurate translations” there is. I find the KJV fairly consistent in it’s wording, which makes it very easy to use for studying. So I think the key to proper interpretation is not, necessarily, looking for a Bible that doesn’t contain the word “hell,” so much as it is letting the scriptures themselves define for us what the word “hell” means, rather than relying on what theologians have told us it means. Enjoyed the article. All blessings in Christ. Christine
That is actually a problem with KJV that it is NOT consistent in its word translation. Mainly though, there are older scriptural documents/fragments found that have improved scholarship since the KJV was written. And it contained some biases directed by King James himself. My personal problem with it is that the NT was written in Koine Greek (ἡ κοινὴ διάλεκτος, “the common dialect”) which is common language, while the KJV is written in language which is NOT spoken any more, which changes its perception and meaning for modern readers, taking us backwards.
I am glad you brought that up Christine. In my view, part of the ppwer of the gospel is that a Christian can find its message regardless of little details like the word hell. But sometimes the devil really is in the details. I have seen people base their lives on hollow crusades against homosexuality because of mistranslation (the original meaning was more about pedophilia than homosexuality.) Of course, if everyone were as wise as you in terms of understanding that faith is something to interpret and not a rulebook in black and white. But i fear as long as people take a small part of a big book to traumatize people and make them obey through fear and not love, I feel like I must argue for a version that shows the nuance of the originals and not a version based on creating an authoritative account using incomplete resources.
Those who never come to know and OBEY God are NOT tortured for all eternity. The KJV tells us they are instead DESTROYED for all eternity…
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
As George Carlin used to say “…but He loves you.”
You nailed it! Thanks
What about Matthew 25:31-46
Verse 46 talks about everlasting punishment.
166 aiōnios which is eternal, everlasting.
165 aión is an age or cycle of time.
I think aiōnios is what 46 is talking about.
Could you explain this verse.
Good question. We dive into that in the follow up article – https://www.brazenchurch.com/hell-2-lake-of-fire-lazarus-gnashing-eternal-torment/
I’ve read that article mate still a bit confused on it I’ll keep rereading it.
So is aliónios eternal or an age of time. Can you pass on to me some more info other than what you have shared.
Thankyou
Thanks i was looking for Part 2! I’ve also downloaded the pdf but haven’t checked it out yet. Love this article and your site, keep up the great work! My first issue with “hell” was when i learned about the oneness of opposites and how good/bad along with tall/short, light/dark and all the others don’t exist separately, they are two sides of each coin or two ends of shoelaces (existing in the form of a bell-shaped curve). This is represented by the tree of the experience of function and dysfunction in Genesis, which represents yin/yang, and which we as humans (adam = earthling) all eat from.
For instance, there is no way God could separate “good” from “bad” because what about those who are half? Say we commit a trillion acts in a lifetime (thoughts, words, deeds) what about someone who was 49.9999999% good, and someone who had just one more bad thought or one who was 50.0000001% good – there is no way God would send one to eternal torment and one to eternal bliss just for a couple more bad thoughts.
Christians would rightly say that it’s not about good and bad, as we are not supposed to eat from that tree. But the problem is BELIEF IS ON THE SAME SLIDING SCALE! Believing facts about God and Jesus obviously doesn’t save us because the demons KNOW the truth and doesn’t save them. Believing IN Jesus means we act like he does, and that takes learning and progress; we are all somewhere along the sliding scale.
I realized i had to start deconstructing the common or “pop” beliefs of Christianity and that there were many things in the Bible i had to start understanding as not being literal.
I am straight but i wrote an “eBook” about how Christians should accept gay people and even support gay marriage (BECAUSE of Jesus not in spite of him), and when i checked on a broken link, the site asked me to start blogging. So you can see some of my work on deconstructing Christianity here: https://blog.christiangays.com/blog/author-category/modicumx/
Don’t know why i stuck all this here in the comments instead of an email or something, but why not. 🙂
I like your thoughts about the sliding scale. I will check out your ebook about gay marriage. I’m glad you left your thoughts here instead of an email, or else I wouldn’t have seen them! Peace.
Unbelievers don’t “want” ‘when you’re dead you’re dead’ to be true, they simply realize that it is, regardless of their preferences–many unbelievers, especially former Christians, *wish* there were a heaven where they could live forever in bliss, but they aren’t that foolish. Unbelievers have no need to “want” to believe claptrap, because they’re simply intelligent enough not to … claptrap like that when they die, they (well, not the currently embodied consciousness that is a process in their physical brains, but some ethereal soul thingy) will be sent by some superpowerful guy in the sky to be tortured forever in a fiery pit under the ground (but formerly located in a valley in the Levant), managed by some slightly less superpowerful guy buddy of the guy in the sky, someone horned and tailed with a remarkable resemblance to the pagan god Pan, but named Lucifer — which means “bright morning star”; what happened there? Well, of course, it’s myths crafted from other myths, like all this stuff, including of course “hell”: http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/hell.html
Unbelievers are very different from people like Timothy who writes in a comment here: “Yeah just take hell out of the Bible and it doesn’t exist. When your in hell just say it doesn’t exist. Anyone that listens to you is sad.”
As this article explains, hell was never *in* the Bible … yet Timothy persists in believing in it because he was taught that and is incapable of rethinking and challenging what he was taught even when it is plainly laid out for him. Unbelievers, who can appreciate the effort here to sift through the language of the Bible to see what it actually says, find it sad that the author still fails to realize that the Bible is not veridical — it does not describe reality–it’s a game of telephone over the ages, with ignorant nomads, Roman propagandists, and others layering story upon story and adding their own twists and turns, just as we see in the evolution of fairy tales and other mythologies. And unbelievers read the comments here and find most of them mindbogglingly stupid, ignorant, and intellectually dishonest, and their contempt for godbots increases. You really can’t blame them.
Nice, looking forward to the follow up article. If you’re planning to run a series of these, I’d be interested for you to tackle ‘spirit’ and ‘trinity’. I did the former on my blog a while back – http://biblesnippets.com/defining-spirit/
Hey Nathan, thanks for commenting! Our plan is to just have the two-part series for now, but we certainly might branch into one of the topics you mentioned. And great article btw!
Great article . Some basic Bible truth ; Apart from God and without access to the tree of life , man can NOT live forever . Where did this idea come from that humans will live forever in hell ? I believe that to be pagan Greek mythology . Very sad that some who claim to be Christians can believe that God , who is love , mercy and grace could also be the author of infinite torment .
Looking forward to further posts on “the Lake of Fire”. I definitely have been leaning this direction for some time. I’m not really sure why the doctrine of eternal torment is so deeply rooted in our culture. I have some ideas (going back to Gnosticism and theology from the Middle Ages), but I just don’t understand the deep rooted fear to question this doctrine. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to write this!
http://godsfoolishness.blogspot.com/
Thanks Joe! We’ll definitely be looking at the lake of fire and the question of where this narrative came from.
And you sum up the other issue very well in your article. “The community of ‘believers’ will treat you as an outsider when you begin to ask the ‘wrong’ questions or discover the ‘wrong’ answers. In this framework, the community perceives the outsider as someone who needs to be converted (again).”
Spot on. We really need to get away from this intrinsic fear that there’s a deceptive force out there that is way better at deceiving us than the Holy Spirit is at keeping us from deception.
That’s for sure, and meanwhile we, while in that community, have been deceived and are bent on staying decieved, for fear of being deceived.
Joe i checked out your blog real quick it looks great! I will read more. I am starting to find more examples of people who i think “get it” or are willing to question “pop” Christianity to find the truth; it’s good to know we’re not alone.
Hi
You’ve put much effort into it.
How could it be good news if there aren’t any bad ones? God without the devil? Light without darkness? Heaven without hell?
Hey Vidal,
Well, first of all, why does it need to be a binary spectrum? Some of those things may exist in contrast, but that doesn’t require the rest to operate similarly.
But you offer a valid question – “how could it be good news if there is no bad news?”
This is why I started off our discussion by talking about the real Hell we see all over the world. Humanity is bursting at the seams with bad news already. It isn’t our defining narrative, but for many people, Hell is all they know.
We really don’t need any more bad news. It’s already here. What we need is good news, and that’s what Jesus came to bring.
That is beautiful. By the way, I believe orginal sin, the knowledge of good and evil, is what causes comments like the one you responded to. Our imperfect minds cannot truly grasp the concept of good and evil, and we are cursed to forever not know one without the other.
Amen!
Exactly.
The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: “Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?” -Isiaah 33:14
Oops.
Haha RobGor are you attempting to counter my point with a single verse, presented without context or elaboration?
I’m hoping you can do better. You might have a very valid point to make, but I certainly can’t see it from your comment.
Keep reading and you will feel bad that the point made is the exact opposite of what RobGor seems to be implying:
“’Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire?
Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?’
Those who walk righteously
and speak what is right,
who reject gain from extortion
and keep their hands from accepting bribes,
who stop their ears against plots of murder
and shut their eyes against contemplating evil.” – Isaiah 33:14-16
Yes, this verse is about the righteous dwelling with the everlasting burning of the consuming fire. Lol. Not about the wicked.
Find out* not feel bad
God is a consuming fire, that is backed up by Duet 4:24 break it down in the Hebrew same two words consuming and fire…….
I have heard this before and definitely understand the perplexity of getting back to a more historical-cultural context of Biblical interpretation and worldview. We also ought to consider the literary style and context of the passages.
However, you did not address the shift in Christian thought where Hell is not a place God condemns people (which is the prevailing thought in Evangelical Christianity) and they experience eternal torment. Hell is actually a place where in the afterlife where individuals are in eternal torment because they have denied God through their thoughts, feelings, and behavior. God is a just and merciful Judge. We all will stand and be judged. Revelation even talks about the two judgments, one for those whose names are written in the book of life and those whose names are not written.
What this means is: Hell is a place where individuals have chosen to go because they have refused to accept the gift of God’s sovereign Grace through Jesus Christ.
Thanks for your feedback Timothy, I can totally see the counter arguments you’re making. But if you believe God is a “merciful judge”, why would He decide that refusing his gift of eternal life warrants the most horrific punishment imaginable … eternal torment. We are not eternal beings, so the only way in which we access everlasting life is through “the gift” Jesus provided. So why would a just judge give everlasting life, even one of torment, to those who deny him? Wouldn’t make more sense scripturally and logically that those who deny him simply loose out on eternity with Him.
Destiny,
I think you misunderstand what Timothy is saying – if I understand him correctly, he is saying God doesn’t FORCE us to CHOOSE him and lets us live with our choices, in this life and presumably whatever comes after. CS Lewis summed this up nicely writing “The gates of hell are locked from the inside” and gave a wonderful illustration of this in The Last Battle in the scene with the dwarfs in the stable near the end of the book.
The problem with this argument, Tim & Todd, is that ultimately it’s semantics. In your scenario, God created this Hell as surely as He created everything else. What’s more, He apparently has the keys to death and the grave. If people are ending up in Hell, it’s because that is God’s decision for the destination of the unbelieving. You can dance around this as much as you want, but in the context of a sovereign God, there is no meaningful difference between people’s failure to choose God placing them in Hell and God choosing to place the unbelievers in Hell.
I don’t believe the distinction is merely semantic. In one instance we have God devising a place of active, fiery torment to punish unbelievers for all eternity. In the other, God creates hell as a place APART FROM HIMSELF for those who wish to have nothing to do with him; a place of “outer darkness” so to speak, with no fire and no active torture, just the simultaneous certainty that you’ve both missed the boat and couldn’t stand to be on it anyway.
As mentioned above, Lewis held this view:
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it.”
Whatever the nature of hell, I appreciate the discussion you’ve raised here and I certainly do agree that our modern concept of hell owes more to Dante or Milton than our Lord or his apostles. God Bless.
What Allen wrote. Hell IS semantics for separation from God, which, if he gave us free will, then he gave us the choice of him/not him. Have you read The Great Divorce? In one scene we have a devout (insert sect)-ist at the entrance to Heaven. God sends down someone this person judged to be in hell for his sins to fetch him upward. The man couldn’t conceive of God forgiving this person and turned away! I don’t believe there is a ‘place’ hell, more as you stated in your OP, it is a state of mind. In that sense, so is heaven. To know God is to know peace and his kingdom, no matter what one’s circumstance.
I wonder if it’s true that if we have an eternal component (I believe in some way we do), and we don’t choose God, will he recycle us and give us every opportunity to reconcile ourselves to him as he did to us on the cross? There certainly appears to be some justification in the prophesied spirit of Elijah coming before the Messiah, though John the Baptist denied he was Elijah. Ultimately, it is mostly speculative. The only thing I know for sure is the power of Christ’s blood.
I appreciate the work you’ve done here. I’m curious to know if you’ll be looking at Paul’s writings as well. Specifically, some of his writing in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians. I’m especially interested in your take on 2nd Thessalonians 1:5-12.
Hey Daniel, thanks for mentioning that passage. That’s definitely something worth taking a closer look at, so we’ll make sure to do so. I’m not sure if this applies to this instance, but I know “until the end of the age” is often mistranslated as “eternal” in our English translations of the Bible.
The Hebrews had an additional measurement of time known as an “Age”, spanning around 2,300 years I believe. This might not apply to that passage, but if you’d like to learn more about it, check out this amazing series by Martin Trench – http://martintrench.com/the-ancient-biblical-teaching-of-the-ages-series/
I’ll take a look at that website. I look forward to your take on Paul’s writings!
Part of the problem here is that we should let the Bible define for us the doctrines of hell. Just because the word ‘hell’ is not a greek or hebrew word doesn’t really mean much as the word ‘trinity’ isn’t ever found in the Bible but it’s a biblical doctrine as well. There are many verses that build for us a full understanding of hell and the eternal judgment. Keep in mind the word ‘eternal’ is also linked to the idea of punishment for the unbelievers. Revelation and many other verses clearly describe the punishment being eternal and everyone who’s name is not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire according to revelation:
(Rev 19:20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(Rev 20:10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Rev 20:15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
https://carm.org/hell-eternal
https://carm.org/hell
https://carm.org/god-eternal-punishment-for-temporary-sins
Thank you,
Zach.
Zach,
One needs to understand what ‘eternal’ means in these verses and in most cases it is a ‘present age’ or ‘finite time frame’! Also, does it sound funny that “Hell’ is thrown lake of fire?? Hell is thrown into ‘hell’??
John 12:32New International Version (NIV)
32 And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Zach, Ask yourself this? What sins did Jesus die for??
Also what did Jesus mean in the following verse
Luke 23:34New International Version (NIV)
34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
Did ‘believers’ or ‘unbelievers’ kill Jesus?? Is Jesus referencing ‘believers’ or ‘unbelievers’
“Hell’ is NO where in scriptures and the foundation is ‘Demonic’ in its roots and actually comes from the Pseudepigrapha. http://www.tentmaker.org is a great site!!
“Hell’ is against the nature of God and makes a mockery of the Cross!!
Zachary,
Excellent reply. Context is crucial in scripture, or any communication. You simply can’t get there on the path of this kind of reasoning.
David and Zach will want to refer to our second article on Hell.
https://www.brazenchurch.com/hell-2-lake-of-fire-lazarus-gnashing-eternal-torment/
We started by addressing the specific verses, because if we don’t, your comments would have been, “But Jesus said _______”.
That’s why this is a series, and the context is there if you care to read it.
This is a great start! Good work. This popped up in my newsfeed and I enjoyed the read. I’m a “purgatorial conditionalist” (a term I coined to get at my view). I get to that end through some angles that aren’t completely provable through the *explicit* biblical evidence (especially the conviction that in the resurrection all people will be given a final chance at reconciliation in God’s new creation), but does the best I can with the evidence I suppose–even if implicit. To explain: I am convinced at the annihilation part of my view (mostly) and the other half (purgatorial/postmortem repentance) I really hope is true. I guess I say that to name that this is an issue that we need open hands… rather than closed fists…. and you guys demonstrate that tendency well. Thanks for the great analysis. It’s always fun to revisit a topic I haven’t dealt with directly in a while. Here’s my series from back in 2012: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepangeablog/category/series-hell-yes-hell-no-who-cares/
Hey Kurt, great stuff, thanks for weighing in! I was actually first introduced to an alternative view of Hell via Patheos, via one of Benjamin Corey’s posts. I’m looking forward to reading through your series!
I really appreciate encountering someone who can see the evidence for one thing but believe another, because I do the same thing. From my perspective, annihilationism has by far the most Biblical evidence in its favor, but at the end of the day, I’m an ultimate reconciliationist, because that viewpoint fits better with my overall understanding of God and the overall narrative I see in Scripture.
As Brad Jersak would say, I “believe” it to be true, but I don’t “presume” it to be correct.
Very cool to hear. Ben is a good friend. We actually did a podcast on hell several months back on “That God Show.” I respect where you are coming from and am certainly in process on this stuff.
Well, we see here yet another example of well-meaning, zealous Christians who lack education and maturity deciding everyone else in the history of the church missed it and it’s up to us to bring correction and teach the real truth. And protestant denomination number 38,901 is birthed. Spiritual pride is deadly and contagious. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised to see bethel had an influence here.
Let’s not forget that the ‘tradition’ of the church has got it wrong in many other areas (slavery, antisemitism, Hebrews as Pauline, etc). And shoot… Even the Eastern church has a different view than the West.
Well I’ll give you this, Jamadon, the thought of “everyone in the history of the church” agreeing on something certainly gave me a chuckle. That would make this whole theology thing SO much easier!
If you were correct – if for the last 2,000 years, Church leaders had unilaterally agreed on the nature of “Hell” – than I would certainly be presumptuous to offer an alternative explanation. Not inherently wrong, mind you, but certainly presumptuous.
But this supposed consensus is simply nonexistent. Early church fathers, particularly pre-Augustine had no consensus, and prominent leaders throughout Church history have disagreed on many aspects of the afterlife. The closest thing we have to consensus through history is Catholic tradition, but even there, we seen many respected sects that had varying ideas on the afterlife.
Jamadan, please don’t blame Bethel for one person’s opinion. I have attended Bethel School of Ministry and was on staff for 5 years at Bethel and I do not fully agree with the article.
While anyone who knows me will know I attended BSSM, I’ve made no claim to represent Bethel’s views in any way, shape or form, nor have I linked Bethel to this website’s content in any way.
Charismatic theology is essentially Evangelical theology + a belief in the active use of spiritual gifts, and much of the content in our blog deals with dismantling common Evangelical views, so we would disagree with Bethel on many of the topics we discuss here.
I don’t feel like I need to clarify this, since I never made an association in the first place, but I’ll do so this once.
Jamadan,
Your opinion please? Was Martin Luther an example of the “spiritual pride” you, without support, slur McMillen for? Would you mind, if you stand behind your attack, contrasting and comparing your own lack of education and maturity with said lacks that you baselessly accuse not only McMillen of, but also (in spite of Luther being one of the first to translate [the Lutheran version, at least] of the biblical canon [midway between Catholic and later-Protestant canons, is it not?] into a common, not dead, language), the plain implications crushing down from your words of Blind Faith in the infallibility of “The Church” over 2,000 years of differing doctrinal positions … those implications by logical application claim without naming him that Martin Luther lacked education and maturity (presumably to a much greater degree than you, Jamadan, who arrived to point out the errors above and … oh, right–you pointed no errors out; just trash-commented your barbs of “spiritual pride”, nowhere so readily evident as in comparing McMillen’s humble, non-defensive, educated article and replies herein-beneath with your own one-stop smear sneer so full of pride you felt no compulsion to counter anything McMillen actually wrote in the article, relying solely on your Traditions of Man assumptions and your intellectually disingenuous Ad Hominem attack.
Just to be clear, given Luther’s historically-won freedom of The Church’s outward structure from the rigid centuries of the Catholic and Orthodox monopolies, such behavior must’ve really lacked education and maturity if you choose to “believe” as your “comment” suggests, no? Is Luther’s legacy simply in his “deciding everyone else in the history of the church missed it and it’s up to [the then new protestants] to bring correction and teach the real truth”? Was he wrong to do so? Had he no valid concerns? Grace v. works? Indulgences? Was it pride that made him risk being burned at the stake, that enabled him to virtually-single-handedly take on an even-then, older-than-a-millennium, monolithic church structure? A structure that had theologically calcified after intertwining too tightly with political power (a poisonous influence on the Church’s “control” issues ever since, as “hell” is an example of) ever since Roman Emperor Constantine’s government takeover of The Church just a few centuries after her birth.
Just curious if you have any opinion on these issues, as honestly processing these points against your ad hominem attack will, I trust, get you back on track earning those “study to shew theyself approved” stars. But really, just as you and Lidiya had obviously not even read the article, I shouldn’t have spent this many pixels deconstructing your not-really-veiled name-calling. Because you’re not ready to seek truth. Thus your knee-jerk fear response.
Not to worry, Jamadan. We’re all on The Way. If you let your faith bring out the best in you, you’ll no longer fear the simple asking of questions. That was, after all, one of Yeshua’s main forms of teaching. Engages the minds of those with ears to hear. So be not threatened.
Go, and slander no more.
Hey I really like your willingness to have these conversations. I essentially have come to a similar conclusion. One question I have is, what emphasis you do place on Church history on this topic? I think it’s obvious that what Christians have historically believed echos into modern theology; many would say that the Church history has been (essentially) divinely inspired and is to be used as a tool in interpreting difficult scriptures. Anyone with esword can pull up parallel translations with a lexicon and do some quasi Greek/Hebrew “translations” and come up with some convincing theology. I’ve done it a lot myself. I certainly think Church history needs to be introduced, especially when dealing with what such a large group of Christians would call a ‘heresy’ or whatever.
Hey Luke, that is a fantastic point, and I am 100% in agreement with you.
This week’s post was about addressing the obvious “right there in the Bible” mentions of Hell first. It’s virtually impossible to get people to wrap their heads’ around something conceptual or as complex as church history when there is a much simpler issue of “the Bible says Hell right there” remaining unaddressed.
Now that we have looked at the narrow-view specifics, we’ll step back a bit next week, examine some more conceptual passages in scripture and look at the Church’s view of Hell throughout history.
Thank you for writing this article. Your examination of the topic with historical context incorporated has provided insight I had not seen or thought about before. These were illuminating.
I want to address a couple issues I noticed from Matthew and some from elsewhere in the NT.
First of all I agree with the case you present that Jesus is saying it is far better to remove a body part (metaphorically speaking) than to let sin (with its destruction) enter one’s life.
With that aside I want to focus on your main thesis as stated in your comment to Bill: “I’m primarily concerned with debunking the idea of eternal torment.”
In your Gehenna discussion you referenced Matt 18:9. Although Gehenna is used in that verse, there is a very important connection of parallelism to the verse previous (vs 8) that links them together in describing one another. (– This parallelism is also commonly seen in Biblical wisdom literature.)
– Verse 8 speaks of eternal fire as the consequence. In verse 9, using nearly identical sentence/word pattern the consequence is stated slightly differently as fire of Gehenna. This is the parallelism and it means that they are similar descriptors. So in this context (of ch 18) he is saying that the mental picture of Gehenna is an eternal fiery punishment.
Not mentioned in your discussion is Matthew 25:31-46, with verse 41 in particular. Verse 32 establishes the subjects (both sheep and goats) are people. Verse 41 not only talks about eternal fire but also says that people will be cast into this place made for the devil and his angels – showing they are all together cast in. Lastly vs. 46 makes it quite clear in contrasting eternal life and eternal punishment that they are distinct, opposite destinations of eternal nature.
Jude 7 impresses Sodom and Gamorah as a picture of an eternal punishment.
Lastly for my case here, is pointing to Rev 20 and the lake of fire. (I know you will address this in your forth-coming article so I will eagerly wait to read it to see what you have to say on the passage.) Nonetheless I will quickly point out a few things:
– vs 10 shows its nature as “forever and ever”
o The devil, the beast and the false prophet are in there being tormented.
– vs 14-15 states that Death and Hades are thrown in
– and anyone whose name is not written in the Book of Life is also thrown in.
Not to forget also 2 Thessalonians 1:5-12 as Daniel mentioned in his comment above.
On these evidences I cannot yet see your thesis being validated by scripture.
Nonetheless I appreciate the other insights you have brought forward and I enjoyed reading and thinking through your post. Looking forward to the next post. Thank you.
Hey Derek, thanks for your kind words and insightful comments. Each of the passages you mention are of valid concern and on queue to be addressed next week.
While I feel there is a very convincing argument to be made against eternal torment via Scripture, my true purpose is not to bring an airtight case, but rather, to offer an alternative viewpoint to those who have never considered “Hell” might not be what they’ve been taught.
The idea of Hell is horrible and hopeless in every sense of the word. I believed in it for many years because I knew God was real and I assumed what I had been taught about Hell was unquestionably the story of scripture. But when I started to look for myself, I realized this isn’t the case. If there is a case to be made for eternal torment, it’s a FAR thinner case than the one to be made for permanent annihilation of the wicked, and yet we rarely hear about that viewpoint.
My goal with these two posts is to dismantle the absolute narrative and then let people decide on their own where to go from there.
An interesting discussion on the words translated into English as “hell.” Many of these comments are consistent with my seminary education. However, I am less confident of your statements about “traditional Hebrew thought” and would appreciate footnotes. I am also concerned that your references to Hebrew tradition does not take into consideration the many different sects within Judaism.
I agree, one would want to see a history-of-religions study looking at how the term and concept Gehenna/Gehinnom were used in ancient Jewish texts outside the New Testament. This would help to determine whether a ‘postmortem torment’ interpretation of Gehenna is a Christian innovation or developed already/separately in Judaism.
I recommend the book ‘The Formation of Hell’ by Bernstein – a historian without a theological axe to grind – as a good review of where these ideas came from in both Greco-Roman and Jewish culture. Philip Johnston’s book ‘Shades of Sheol’ is a good overview of the OT use of this word.
Hey Emily, that is an incredibly fair request. To be perfectly honest, my understanding of Hebrew thought comes primarily from discussions with Orthodox Jews while I was in Israel, supplemented by confirming comments I’ve heard here and there from people more studied than myself.
But that’s obviously not enough to base a study on. I didn’t feel like my comments on Hebrew thought were necessarily central to my arguments, but I’ll see what I can find in the way of citation-worthy sources and get back with you.
Jacob, I am glad Emily pointed this matter out as I had the exact same response while reading your otherwise very well-reasoned and persuasive discussion and research. I’m totally appreciative and on board with the overall thrust of your message! But in regards to “In traditional Hebrew thought, Earthly physical bodies were left on Earth while spirits were preserved”, my understanding was that the dualism as described didn’t exist in ancient Hebrew thought at all (Perhaps more so in later Judaism as a result of Greco/Babylonian influences). We did not have disembodied “spirits” to be preserved, we had souls which = selves = bodies. They would be resurrected at the day of judgement. Some references/sources would be a good idea.
-Peace, and thanks for this important initiative.
Also, apparently the idea that the valley of Hinnom was a continually burning garbage dump in Jesus’ day has been largely debunked — the earliest evidence for this idea is a rabbinic commentary from c. 1200 AD.
See:
https://bbhchurchconnection.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/was-gehenna-a-smoldering-garbage-dump/
http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2011/04/fires-of-gehenna-views-of-scholars.html
Hey Thomas,
Thanks for pointing this out. We dug into this a bit more and discovered that while calling it a “myth” is a bit extreme, the evidence for it is sparse, as you suggested. We edited the text accordingly and emailed our subscribers to make them aware of the changes.
I was already aware of a literal physical burning place, but I’m going to address whether or not it’s the SAME as what Jesus was talking about.
Let’s speak about the usage of Gehenna, and let’s use some logic with this. First of all, Jesus said, “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
Notice how those who kill the body are not able to kill the soul. Notice how God is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. If the Gehenna that Jesus was talking about was just a place of a physical fire, and this place could destroy BOTH your body and soul, then mere mortals would be able to destroy your soul just by setting you on fire. Obviously, fire does NOT destroy your soul, so this Gehenna isn’t just a place of a physical fire. In fact, why does Jesus say that God destroys your soul in Gehenna? Why doesn’t he just say that God destroys your soul? What does Gehenna have to do with the destruction of your soul? After all, mere fire doesn’t destroy your soul. As I said, if mere fire destroyed your soul, then we would need to fear mortals setting us on fire.
When Jude says that Sodom and Gomorrah “serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire,” if that only meant this physical fire where the poor people were burned, then we could walk up to anyone who says that they want to be cremated when they die, and say to them, “Sodom and Gomorrah served as an example of what’s going to happen to you.” Does that make sense? I don’t think so. I don’t think he was referencing a physical fire for what happens after death. He was referencing something physical in the past as a type of something non-physical in the future.
Jude also said that for the people (note: people, not angels) that he’s talking about, “blackest darkness has been reserved forever. “ This sounds similar to the holding place for the devil and his angels, for Jude says that God has kept the fallen angels in darkness. Peter, in chapter 2 of his second epistle says the same thing, that, “these people…Blackest darkness is reserved for them.” He also says that God sent the angels to “hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment” That sounds similar to what happens to people. In fact, at the judgment, Jesus mentioned people going to the same place as the devil and his angels:
In Matthew 25:41, it says, “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.”
The writing of the author (for which I am writing this) states, “2 Peter 2:4 isn’t talking about people. It’s talking about where God sent fallen angels.”
Well, both of them are put in darkness, and then both of them end up in the eternal fire. That sounds to me like people are going to the same place that the fallen angels went, but I will grant that maybe they are both put in different places before the judgment, but not after. Jesus did say that the eternal fire was prepared for angels, but then he sends people into it as well. There is something else to note about the fact that this place was prepared for angels. We know from Hebrews 1:14 that angels are spirits, and from Luke 24:39 that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. If this eternal fire that Jesus mentioned were only a physical fire in a garbage dump, then what is it doing to spirits that don’t have flesh? It is my contention that this is not a physical fire.
Concerning Hades, I don’t think the author addressed it very well. If it were only the grave, where there is no consciousness, then why did Jesus mention the rich man being “in torment” there? Abraham says the rich man is “in agony,” and the rich man doesn’t want his family to come to “this place of torment.” It sounds like he’s in torment long enough to at least last the conversation; therefore it’s not some instantaneous going to oblivion, and it’s bad enough there that he wants his family to not come there. Granted that it’s a parable, but when were Jesus’ parables ever using something not true to convey meaning? He used truth to convey truth.
Concerning the statement by Jesus to the Pharisees, “how will you escape being condemned to Gehenna?” the author says that this “is telling on multiple levels and serves to handily solidify the argument for Jesus referencing literal Gehenna as a meaningful symbol.”
Jesus uses the word condemned, which, according to the concordance for this word, means,
“1) a separating, sundering, separation
1a) a trial, contest
2) selection
3) judgment
3a) opinion or decision given concerning anything
3a1) esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong
3b) sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation
and punishment
4) the college of judges (a tribunal of seven men in the several
cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin,
which had its seat at Jerusalem)
5) right, justice”
Being separated by judgment to Gehenna, doesn’t sound to me like it’s just merely dying and having your body burned. It sounds more like a sentence than just a regular part of nature, but I’m just going by the feel of this statement here, so it’s not as strong to me as the other statements I’ve made above.
Since the author hasn’t addressed the lake of fire or other such things yet, I will postpone mentioning those things. I also haven’t really addressed eternal punishment. I’ve only addressed whether I think Jesus was only talking about a physical fire.
Hey Francois, thanks for weighing in. You make some great points.
Let me start by saying that while I feel there is no reasonable case to be made for eternal torment, my language and tone in this article were a bit more conclusive than the secondary arguments I made deserve. I’ve done this intentionally because most of the people reading this article have been hammered repeatedly with an absolute narrative that eternal torment is the only reasonable conclusion from Scripture, when that simply isn’t true. My goal was to make a compelling argument against the verses used to explain eternal torment, and then let the reader decide where to go from there. For those wanting a more academic, incredibly well-balanced analysis of this topic, there is already Brad Jersak’s book “Her Gates Will Never Be Shut”, which we will recommend for further reading in our follow up piece.
To respond to your comments, I think it’s possible that Jesus used Gehenna at times to reference the afterlife, but if He did, I see no evidence for that reference amounting to eternal torment, nor do I see legitimate cause for Gehenna to be translated as “Hell”.
I think it’s important to note that Jesus said, “He who CAN kill body and soul”… rather than “He who WILL kill body and soul”. I think that distinction is meaningful, if we are going to take a more literal approach. Other than that, I would agree with your points suggesting there are other ways to interpret Gehenna. You are absolutely right.
In terms of Jude, I would actually use Jude as an argument against taking “eternal” literally, as Sodom was literally burned but not literally burned eternally. Hell proponents read Jude as a clear defense of eternal torment, because when reading something figurative, that is their automatic assumption. If I’m reading it from a no-Hell paradigm, it just as easily fits into my perspective. If Jude refers to a literal, temporary fire as eternal, couldn’t that mean any other reference to eternal fire is representing something like the destruction of Sodom?
“Let scripture interpret scripture” can be used to make a billion different contradicting points, which is why we have a bazillion denominations and Christian schools of thought.
Concerning Hades, I completely agree with you that I didn’t do it justice, but that’s because it’s not translated into “Hell” very frequently, and my goal was to address the word “Hell” in this article. I’ll need to touch on that a bit more in our follow-up.
You seem to have missed out all of revelation and the talk of fire. And there are numerous old testament scriptures on Hell. I think you’ve just spun old translations for personal annihilation reasons. I’m fed up of reading Leftist commentaries changing ideas to fit neochristianity. I don’t see why you believe in the Bible or Jesus at all.
Hello Chris, I’m not an annihilationist but thanks for commenting. According to your comments – “I don’t see why you believe in the Bible or Jesus at all” – it sounds to me like Hell is the core of your Christian beliefs. I’d be curious to know why Hell is such a central belief for you, that discarding it is grounds to give up on Jesus altogether? I feel like there is a lot more to Jesus than that.
Also, I should have mentioned above, that when they died, the rich man went to Hades and Lazarus went to “Abraham’s bosom.” That means that they went to two different places at death, and one of them was bad and one was good. If Hades only meant the grave, then why weren’t Abraham, Lazarus, etc. in Hades?
Would you consider Jesus to be a savior? If so, what is he saving you from if not hell?
The Bible both does talk about hell, which you confirmed by pointing out where it occurs. It also talks about it in many other verses, but not by name.
God is just, which means there will be a judgement. If you believe the reward will be eternal, how could you believe the punishment would not be, especially when God’s word tells us it is so?
Without hell, the gospel loses its worth. It appears to me that you are attempting to take away from what Jesus did and the glory of God.
I think where we differ Kelly is in the view of eternity with Christ as a “reward”. I believe that eternity with Him was what God created us for. All of us. It’s value is inherent. Consequence/reward doesn’t factor into it.
We’ve made Christianity exclusive, and called it “grace” while truly, deep-down, believing it’s our righteousness that qualifies us. This isn’t the gospel.
If you need Hell for the Gospel to be meaningful, you must be missing out on the wonder of God’s creation and the beauty of humanity. I’d hope, for your own sake, that’s not your view of life. Jesus came to give us abundant life.
What was the purpose of Jesus becoming man and dying on the cross if we all will end up with God anyway?
Heaven isn’t a reward, but what God intended for His elect. Hell is the location of eternity for the nonelect.
What do you believe happens to those who die outside of Christ?
Grace is exactly what gets us into heaven. Without grace, we would all be destined to spend eternity apart from God (hell). The Bible is very clear that it is by grace through faith that we are saved. What do you believe we are being saved from? The Bible tells us we are being saved from the wrath of God. His wrath will be poured out on all unbelievers, which is why the gospel is the most important thing to share with others.
Do you share the gospel with others? If so, why do you do so if everyone will be forgiven anyway.
John 3:3 – only those born again will see the kingdom of God
John 3:16 – only those who believe shall have eternal life
2 Thessalonians 1:9 – unbelievers will suffer eternal destruction
Matthew 25:41 – He sends those that do not know him into the eternal fire
Matthew 25:46 – the righteous (made so by Christ) will gain eternal life, but those that did not know Christ go to eternal punishment
If you would like, I can continue to add more verses to this list.
I am interested to read your next installment, because I do believe you will address a portion of the verses I mention. However, I believe that you are very wrong in your theology, which saddens my heart.
I look forward to your reply.
What does “eternal” mean? Things that are temporal are temporary of course, those things that moths and rust destroy and thieves steal. Eternal things transcend the physical, they are concepts such as love, hope, fear, happiness. Someone who knows God by what Jesus says, has an eternal kind of life, based on those never-ending principles and the eternal love of God. “Kingdom of God” = “realm of YHWH/BEing” (not limited to a place, but based on spirit and truth) = “higher state.”
That is the “second” definition of eternal: (of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging. Similar to when Jesus says “he who believes in me will never taste death” he’s obviously not talking about physical death so he must mean spiritual death, the kind people die every day when they don’t trust that God loves them implicitly, which is what Jesus is saying.
Kelly,
I would like to address your question: What is Jesus saving us from, if not from hell?
Published by the Pittsburg Bible Institute:“The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word THEION which means ‘divine.’ (emphasis mine) Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense.
In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).
To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ would mean a ‘lake of divine purification.’ The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.”
Charles Pridgeon; Is Hell Eternal, or Will God’s Plan Fail; pgs 116 & 117.
Here, Brother Pridgeon makes a vital point: brimstone is for purification, not punishment. This thought went unquestioned until the Dark Ages. His purpose was understood to purify and consecrate, not separate and punish. This Lake of Divine Fire will purify, refine, restore and consecrate til there is nothing left that is contrary to Him.
You may very well be asking the question “if there is no “eternal torment” for anyone, and there is no “eternal annihilation” for anyone, then what are we being saved from?”
Hopefully, the answer to that question will become more clear from what I will be sharing from the Written Word of God.
You see, when someone receives the gift of salvation, it is that person’s pathway of escaping the divine purification of God’s “fiery Spirit,” which is a process that all unbelievers will go through, which through the shed blood of Christ on the Cross is God’s final step in “reconciling” that person back to God as “He” promished to do.
(Colossians 1:20 – And God was pleased for Christ to make peace by sacrificing “His” blood on the Cross, so that all beings in heaven and on earth would be brought back to God. )
It is so very important for us to have the understanding that Believers in Christ who have not been faithful servants will also go through the very same process as unbelievers in respect to going through the divine purification of God’s “fiery Spirit.”
This is illustrated in Matthew 24:51 in which in the parable of the unfaithful servant, JESUS declares that the unfaithful servant will be assigned the “same portion” as the unbelievers (the divine purification of God’s “fiery Spirit”).
In that parable, JESUS is not speaking about unbelievers, because an unbeliever is not a servant of JESUS. Only a Believer in Christ can be called a servant.
When a person receives the gift of Salvation, that person then becomes a servant of God. It is up to that person to whether or not they remain faithful to the Lord.
This is why that JESUS declares to us in this verse, that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Profound regret and sorrow).
The reason for their weeping and gnashing of teeth, is because they will come to the stark realization that as a Believer in Christ, they were given the opportunity to rule and reign with Christ, but because they were found to have been an unfaithful servant, they will have missed out on having obtained the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus. which the Apostle Paul speaks about, which is to rule and reign with Christ.
So, when a person receives the gift of Salvation, that person is not escaping “hell” and “eternal torment” and “eternal annihilation,” because the doctrine of “hell” and “eternal torment” and “eternal annihilation” is not Biblical! That person (if they remain faithful to the Lord) is escaping the divine purification of God’s “fiery Spirit.” This Biblical explanation is certainly much different than what is being taught by the mainstream Christian Church today.
A much closer examination of a number of the parables of JESUS, reveals the same Biblical truths that have already been shared in this article.
NOTE: I do not understand how that a Christian can read this article in it’s entirety without serious questions being raised in their mind and Spirit about the traditional teaching on “Hell,” the “Lake of Fire,” and “eternal torment” that is being taught today in the Church, and is widely accepted as Biblical truth by most Christians today.
Satan has done a very masterful job in “blinding” today’s Church to many Biblical truths. Not only does Satan hate humans because they are made in God’s image, but because Satan lost his position of being the highest ranking angel before he sinned, he cannot stand the thought of Christians ruling & reigning with Christ.
The Church has been “deceived” into believing that all Christians will rule & reign with Christ. However, a closer examination of the “Scriptures” will reveal to us that there will be many Christians who will not rule & reign with Christ.
Satan does not want Christians to know this “little known truth” which has not been understood by the Church today. It is Christians who have practiced “applying” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives who will rule & reign with Christ.
Philippians 3:14 is a MONUMENTAL Passage of “Scripture” for a Christian to understand. After a careful examination of this Passage of “Scripture,” if we are able to come to an understanding of the “profound truth” that is in this Passage of “Scripture,” then it becomes clear as to why this Passage of “Scripture” is of MONUMENTAL importance for a Christian to understand.
The widespread teaching of the Church today, is that all Christians will rule & reign with Christ. However, upon careful examination of the “Scriptures,” the Written Word of God tells us differently.
The Lord through “His” Written Word, is wanting us to understand that Salvation through Grace is “His” free gift to those who accept JESUS as their Lord and Saviour, and to understand that after a person’s Salvation that there is a “prize” that awaits all those who “press toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus.
The “prize” is that of ruling & reigning with Christ, which can only be obtained through a Christian becoming qualified. (qualified – i.e. having been made fit for a position or purpose) Not all Christians will be qualified to rule & reign with Christ.
In fact, one such example can be found in Revelation 3:16, in which JESUS tells the Laodicean Church that because of it’s “lukewarm condition” that “HE” is going to spew them out of “His” mouth. (i.e. because they were not applying the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives, they will not rule & reign with “Him”)
NOTE: JESUS was warning those who were in a “lukewarm condition,” that “if they continued” to stay in that condition, “the final results” would be that they will not rule and reign with “Him” when “HE” returns to set up and establish “His” Kingdom here on earth.
When JESUS made that statement, “HE” was addressing Christians. There is no such thing as a lukewarm non-believer. “Only a Believer in Christ can become lukewarm.”
JESUS also gives us several more examples in some of “His” parables, which can be difficult to understand when trying to decipher the true meaning.
Having obtained the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ does not in itself “qualify” us to rule and reign with Christ.
After the free gift of Salvation, the Lord wants us to have the understanding that there is a “prize” that awaits Christians, but is not automatically awarded to each and every Christian, but is only awarded to those who “press toward the goal” of obtaining that “prize” which the Apostle Paul speaks about.
Salvation through Jesus Christ puts us in position to have the opportunity to “qualify” for obtaining the “prize” of ruling & reigning with Christ.
The Apostle Paul tells us in Philippians 3:14 that he was always “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus. The Apostle Paul had already obtained his Salvation through Grace, so this is not the “prize” that he is speaking about.
The Apostle Paul understood that if a Christian is not careful and not wise to the tactics of the enemy, that he or she can easily “miss the mark” of obtaining the “prize,” which is to rule and reign with Christ.
I believe that this was constantly on the Apostle Paul’s mind.
The Apostle Paul was so concerned about this, that in the 9th Chapter of 1st Corinthians, he tells us that we are to run the race and finish the race in order to obtain the “prize.”
The Apostle Paul states the last thing that he wanted was to become a “castaway” himself. The word “castaway” in the Greek means: unapproved, rejected, disqualified.
Even though the Apostle Paul had obtained his Salvation through Grace, and had obtained a very powerful gifting to carry out his earthly ministry, he recognized that if he did not run the race and “finish it,” that he would himself be unapproved, rejected, disqualified from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
The Apostle Paul was determined to not allow himself “to lose sight” of “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
JESUS tells us in Revelation 3:21, “To him that overcometh, will I grant to sit with “ME” on my throne.” (i.e. – “HE” will grant the “prize” of ruling & reigning with “Him” to Christians who have practiced “applying” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives)
When we are able to grasp the revelation of what “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus truly entails, then some of the difficult to understand sayings of JESUS, and the meaning of some of the difficult to understand parables of JESUS will become more clear to our understanding.
A “major blind spot” of today’s Church, has been, and is, it’s lack of understanding of the difference of “entering” the Kingdom of God, and “inheriting” the Kingdom of God. Only those who “inherit” the Kingdom of God, will rule and reign with Christ!
Without a doubt,“a top priority of Satan, through deceit,” is to keep as many Christians as he can from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.
NOTE: Have you ever thought about what exactly it is that the Saints who have been faithful, will be ruling and reigning over?
It is clear from “Scripture” that the unbelievers who survive the Great Tribulation Period will be allowed to enter into the Millennium Kingdom Age of Christ on earth, in which they will continue to bear children and populate the earth.
There are estimates that 80 Billion people to several hundred Billion people could be born during this period of time. The Age that will follow the Millennium Kingdom Age will be the New Earth Age. I do believe that the case can be made from a careful study of the “Scriptures,” that the “Scriptures” reveal that people will continue to be born in the New Earth Age.
As of January 2017, through the latest telescope technology, scientists are now able to observe 10% of the Universe which has revealed that there are now an estimated 2 Trillion Galaxies in our Universe. Also, there is now believed to be an estimated 800 Billion to 8 Trillion Planets in our Galaxy (The Milky Way).
There are certain to be many more Galaxies in our Universe, because these estimates come only from the observable Universe, which up to the present (January of 2017), is only 10% . We now know that our Universe is continually expanding, and that it is now expanding at an accelerated rate of speed.
God did not create all that “HE” has created just because “HE” got bored and had nothing else better to do. All that God does and has done “is for a specific purpose.” God has “a specific purpose” for the vastness of outer space and all that it contains.
If new generations of people are going to continue to be born in the New Earth Age that follows the Millennium Kingdom Age, then the earth will soon reach it’s limit as to how many people it can support. Maybe this is why God created such a vastness of outer space that is incomprehensible to the human mind.
This is just a portion of a much larger piece that I have written. If anyone would like a copy in it’s original Word Document Format, feel free to e-mail me and request a copy, and I will e-mail you a copy of the complete writing that I have done. It is under the title “What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ?”
candy33alan@aol.com
Hey Jacob, I think this is really well done, although I am not yet fully in agreement 🙂 In your next article, along with the other references you said you’d cover, it’d be great if you included what you think about the passages that refer to “outer darkness” or “darkness” (with weeping and gnashing of teeth) as well. Thanks much!
Thanks Sarah, that’s a great suggestion! I actually was just discussing weeping & gnashing of teeth on Facebook, so I’ll copy/paste what I mentioned here, but it’s absolutely worth a closer look.
———-
It’s intriguing to me that so many use this “weeping an gnashing of teeth” to automatically mean torture. Someone must have taught us that, because I can’t think of a scenario where I say, “The man was weeping and gnashing his teeth” and you say, “Oh he’s being tortured for sure.
The context in Luke 13 makes it seem even less like torment. Jesus is most likely talking to the Pharisees, and they are literally trying to ask about how God is going to exclude people from heaven, saying “Lord, will only a few be saved?”
And he says to these guys who pride themselves on being Abraham’s descendants and fancy themselves the elite, the ones who will be the most honored in heaven – he tells them the first shall be last and the last shall be first, that they will see their heroes and not be admitted. And there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Maybe some get torture from that, but I see the religious elite who fancy themselves first in society and eagerly ask if God will exclude others from heaven – I see everything they believed being flipped over and they are none too pleased about it. And I see a lot of similarities in the church today.
Will you talk about the place Jesus talks about where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched in your next article?
How many times does the word “Trinity” appear in the Bible? What about the word “rapture”?
Hey Sandra, I believe you are referencing the parable of Lazarus, in which case yes, we will cover that next week as promised.
The trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, as you are no doubt implying. If we were ending the discussion at mentions of “Hell” in the Bible, we would certainly be doing our audience a disservice. Unfortunately, writing, researching, citing, erasing, screaming furiously, and then rewriting takes time, and we weren’t quite able to cover every single basis in one article, which is why we will be publishing Part 2 next week.
Also, the rapture concept is based on one verse alluding to Christians being caught up in the air. So while yes, the concept could be true without being mentioned by name, is one non-explicit mention enough to base an absolute doctrine on?
I don’t think so.
These beliefs have consequences, which is why we are discussing them. How many Christians have wasted their lives, neglected having families, refrained from stewarding the Earth, accepted being poor parents…. all because they believed God was coming any moment to snatch them up to heaven? What wonder, excitement, joy, and creativity could have been experienced and expressed through these lives? How many people are right now patiently waiting for God to snatch them up?
A lifetime is big stakes to bet on one or two, non-explicit verses.
Using your criteria of hermaneutics and exegesis, which is a very weak one (the argument about the number of times Hell is mentioned in the Bible); you could make a stronger case against the Trinity than against Hell. The Trinity is not mentioned once in the Bible, yet the puzzle pieces are there for us to easily solve. So I see you on a slippery slope with your mode of exegesis. Your mode of exegesis and your arguments also require you to reject the Trinity (since it is never mentioned). There is a stronger argument for Hell than the Trinity with the number of biblical references. Your exegesis has no grounding and shows pride to years of research done by the early church fathers in expounding this subject and debating it. It also shows pride against the Jewish sages who has researched this subject extensively and believes Gei Ben-Hinnom is a pro-type of Hell independently from the gospels. If the Jewish sages believed Gei Ben Hinnom to be a pro-type of an eternal Hell (although some do see it as a pro-type of a 12 month purgatory after death for penance), then we can’t read it seperately into the Jewish worldview in Jesus day and what Jesus may have meant within His Jewish culture and audience. It was clearly a place of agony (whether it is through the Jewish midrash or an excurciating painful purgatory or an eternal torment, both Jewish alternative views) and not just temporary results of sin. I do not believe in purgatory, as I see it as an affront to the cross that you can provide penance outside the cross. However, the Jewish view that its an agonizing Hell (whether short-term or long-term) is a clear historical Jewish view, and its representation that its the temporal results of sin is NOT. Better exegesis next time buddy.
Thanks for commenting Sean. The purpose of this article, as stated throughout, is specifically to address all mentions of “Hell” in the Bible before moving on to a more conceptual approach. If we stopped here, than yes, it would be poor theology, but as we state at the end of this piece, this is only the first part.
In today’s Christian world, people are taught absolute narratives and given out-of-context verses to quote when those narratives are challenged. If we tried to write a conceptual, broader article on Hell first, the comment section would consist primarily of “but verse _____ says _______” and “Jesus said Hell”. It would be an exercise in futility, which is why we started the argument addressing every time a word is translated as “Hell” in the Bible.
Your are not the first to make references to the early church fathers believing unilaterally in Hell, which is curious because it’s not even remotely true. Augustine was the champion of the eternal torment concept, and infused Christian tradition with Greek Gnosticism, and yet even he said:
“There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments” – Augustine (354-430 A.D.)
If you understand Church history, you realize that you believe in Hell because Augustine believed in Hell, and yet even Augustine testified that 1) many Christians in his day did not believe in Hell, and 2) they did so without denying scripture.
Here are 3 sources verifying that quote. In the 3rd source, you will find a long list of quotes from Church fathers who not only didn’t believe in eternal torment, but actually believe that ALL men would be saved.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/whatif.html
http://www.ccel.us/buis.ch4.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/churchfathersquotes.htm
As far as “the Jewish sages” you mention, that’s just as vague as my reference to “Jewish thought”, so we are both bringing un-sourced arguments to a debate over source material. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.
Have you released the 2nd article yet?
Hey Christy, we plan to publish part 2 this next Saturday. If you’d like us to email it to you, enter your email in the orange box at the end of the article and we’ll be sure to send it your way!
Jacob, I so enjoyed reading this, as well as your comments.
Thank you for being courageous enough to ask good questions in pursuit of a greater truth — even if it will get you accused of pride, stupidity, and heresy. It is something Jesus, Himself, and the Reformers were quite familiar with.
Thank you also for your carefully laid out arguments thus far. This particular issue is of great importance to me because it was the intellectual seed that led to my mentor’s/brother’s fall away from Christ: How could a God who is love eternally punish people for finite sin? It led me to write a paper on the topic while getting my two seminary degrees in the 90s. What I found at the time was a lack of opinions outside of the mainstream (John Stott’s was the only one I could find). What I cobbled together was a very weak but party-line response to my brother, that even I had a hard time truly believing. I remember feeling embarrassed by the lack of outside-the-box thinking on the topic. And my theological paper only contributed to that pile.
Since that time I’ve embraced a more organic church expression, left behind the Evangelical Church pastoral role, and am a missionary among Native Americans. I’ve found that leaving behind so much of the cultural aspects of church has allowed me greater objectivity on sacred cows and greater honesty to admit that things are not as black-and-white as evangelical theology and church polity say they are.
So when I read your article, I was tracking with you. Jesus is saving us from sin — not hell. People on this reservation are among the lowest of the low as far as all traditional metrics go: joblessness, poverty, substance abuse, crime, education, etc. But religion, however, has made little dent. Many will attend a camp meeting, then go and shoot up and abuse their families after. There is a terrible sin sickness here that will lead to many dark nights of the soul as you see the lives that are taken away from it. Seeing people who are so bad off in body, soul, and spirit from their sin condition as well as other people’s sin against them has given me greater confirmation of this reality. Jesus came to save them in every way they can be saved — beginning in the here and now. I hear what you’re saying. And I look forward to your further posts on the topics you’ve mentioned.
I also wanted to thank you for the tremendous grace and sense of humor you exhibit when responding to these unkind comments and accusations. You have evidently exposed many people in the process; good work! We have a saying in the organic church camp: hypocrisy is the heresy of our age. I appreciate your Christlike charity in responding to the hypocritically proud and ignorant comments that question your salvation. In my view, they are more out of Christ than you are with your views. So press on.
Hey Mike, thanks for sharing and for the kind words! Your comments sparked a few thoughts about my own journey.
As I’ve stepped out of my longstanding ideological boxes, I’ve begun to appreciate the beauty that’s present everywhere we look. There is so much of God to be seen in every aspect of Creation, every human, every culture, every religion. I can finally appreciate it all now that my world isn’t binary.
It saddens me that the Church, which should be leading the broken into wholeness, is instead hung up on belief vs unbelief. When a Christian asks someone about how their kids are doing, they don’t really care about the reality of those kids’ lives. They just want to hear whether they are “serving the Lord” or not.
It’s such a waste of this life. In some ways, given my beliefs on the afterlife, I almost feel happy for individuals like your brother who get out of the dysfunctional church environment while they still have their lives ahead of them. But at the same time, I know that Jesus is the way to fullness of life, so I mourn for those who have had Jesus stolen from them by the Church.
Haha as far as the comments are concerned, I’ve learned through experience that one can always expect a variety of characters to show up when addressing theology. Hopefully, the thoughts expressed here will stick with people regardless of the stage of their journey. So much of what I embrace today holds pieces I rejected years ago.
Blessings to you and yours, Mike!
More and more I feel like I’m being pulled closer to the idea of universalism. Not that this article is about it but it does a good job on pointing that direction.
Anyways I was just hoping the second article could include Matt 7:23 “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” And Rev 3:16 “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”
If possible or relevant to whatever direction you are heading anyways. Although I’m kinda sold on the book of revelation being an expanded version of Matt 24. Anyways that’s off topic. Good article. I really believe these things need to be discussed. Wether we agree with them or not. But even then instead of arguing on who has the right doctrine or point of view it shouldn’t matter. We shouldn’t be so caught up in the mess on things like hell being real or not and just go back to what Jesus told us to do. Heal the sick, cast out devil’s, raise the dead, make disciples. Especially if you aren’t willing to open your mind up a little bit to even consider a new idea plausible with evidence backing it up. Can’t remember who but thought that one guys comment was funny about church history being right over everything else. When really church history has had a reputation on being wrong most of the time.
Hey Tyler, thanks for the kind words!
I am personally a Christian universalist, in that I believe all are God’s children and that all of creation will be reconciled. That said, I don’t believe this position can be adequately defended via scripture without ignoring multiple passages. If we are talking strict Biblical “evidence”, I’d say annihilationism is by far the most defensible argument.
In response to some of the issues you mentioned, I’m not sure we will cover them in our next post, so I’ll give a brief response now.
Matt 7:23 “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
I find it very intriguing that virtually ALL of Jesus’ heavier warnings are directed at the Pharisees, or in this case, those who like the Pharisees come to Jesus and say, “look at the religious things we did in your name”. We don’t really see Jesus warning the sinners of anything. In fact, when the Pharisees question him on it, he says “the sick need a physician” which is such a drastically different paradigm than “the sinners need to behave better”.
He undoubtedly calls sinners to repentance, but this is consistent with his directive to bring abundant life. He looks at the adulterer, who has just blown up her life via sin (far worse socially in that time than today) and his only words are, “I don’t condemn you. Now go on your way and sin no more.”
It doesn’t make sense that, if Hell and torment were the destination of the truly wicked, he would only spend his time warning those whose only offenses consisted of pride and self-righteousness. We forget sometimes that the Pharisees were arrogant and self-righteous, but they were still following the Law to the letter. They would be model churchgoers in modern Christianity.
Anyway, those are my initial thoughts on that issue, for what it’s worth.
Rev 3:16 “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”
This is very commonly misinterpreted, and this is exposed by simply asking, “How on Earth is cold better than lukewarm if hot is good and cold is bad?”
We have this concept in Evangelical Christianity of “Being on fire for God” which is something I want to address thoroughly at some point, but for now, let’s just say that this isn’t a Biblical concept.
The reality is that hot water has a purpose and cold water has a purpose, but luke-warm water is relatively useless. I’m not really sure what was being communicated in this verse, but I’m pretty confident it has nothing to do with our youth group message about not being “luke-warm for Christ”.
I appreciate your willingness to question and engage with people you disagree with. My theological baseline is that we are all wrong about God, and we’ll spend the rest of our lives trying to be a bit less wrong about God, and in the end that’s a beautiful thing lol.
Excellent article. Right on the money.
Thanks Dale!
Awesome post. I have been looking for something like this article that systematically goes through all of the mentions of hell. I completely and totally agree that Hell has no specific mention in the Bible and is not a physical place. The allowance of Hell in one’s theology only goes to create a monster God who is dual in nature. I prefer a God who is all-loving in nature and who wants all of creation to be redeemed.
I would be interested in hearing your opinion on Matthew 10:28
“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
From what you said it sounded like you implied that God is the “Him”, and not the devil? This point has historically been debated so I would be interested in hearing what you think about this. Is the text referring to God or the Devil? And do you believe in a Devil?
Again,
Great post and I cant wait to read more!
Ryan
Hey Ryan, thanks for the kind words!
We touch on a Matthew 10:28 a bit in this article, but to summarize, I’d say the following. First, if we take destruction of the soul literally, it cancels the idea of eternal torment. There is nothing ongoing about the word “destroy”, so this supports our argument in this article. Second, I think it’s notable that we see the word “can” here. This word choice does not necessitate that God intends to destroy anyone, although that’s certainly possible.
I completely reject the idea that this passage refers to the devil. For one, I don’t believe in a literal, singular figure named Satan. But even more importantly, I 100% believe that demonic spirits have zero power outside of our agreement with their lies. Satan has zero power to destroy either our body or soul.
We have to remember, when it comes to the “big picture” theological concepts of the New Testament (heaven, hell, predestination, election, etc…), they are all conceptually rooted in ancient Near Eastern *Jewish* theology. That means we have to consciously take off our western cultural filter when reading the bible – and that’s not something easily done. It takes hard work! We have to remember that the New Testament was written by Jews (or possibly in Luke’s case, a Jewish proselyte), who are embedded in Jewish culture, who use Jewish language, to express Jewish theology.
There’s a significant part of western theological tradition (not limited to just the Catholics, or the Calvinists, or the Orthodox, etc…) that either forgets this – or in more unfortunate circumstances chooses to ignore – this context.
Well said Daniel.
Thanks for the interesting article. Obviously a lot of work went into it.
Two comments:
>The King James Bible may be popular but the translations are not accurate, being based on inferior copies originally collected by Erasmus.
>The concept that a divine being would sentence people to eternity in “hell” for something or things they do or do not do, or believe or do not believe, in that person’s 1, 5, 10, 20 or 80 years on earth is incomprehensible, immoral and absurd. A deity who could create the universe is certainly far beyond that very human kind of thinking.
I 100% agree with you on both counts Mark. Thanks for commenting!
I find this discussion fascinating. My beliefs, after reading similar discussions on the translations of the Bible, lean very close to yours.
I will sum up my feelings. We condemn genocidal maniacs such as Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Yet Southern Evangelicals would have us believe that God would do much, much worse. What crime, in life, could ever warrant eternal torture by a just and loving God? When looking at eternity (which no human can possibly grasp, fully), what can one person do in their lifetime, to warrant such a horrible torture – and make no mistake, burning forever is torture, plain and simple. Hell would be a creation, premeditated, to torture anyone who didn’t believe what theologians tell us to believe. What about people incapable of believing? Why would a just and loving God create humanity, give humanity free will and free thought, then punish humanity for using their God given abilities when they chose a path, whatever path, that deviates from the path that theologians “interpret.” People of other religions that lead a good life, selflessly giving of themselves to others, burning eternally?
I believe if Hell was so important, and it is so important for us to avoid, God would provide something a little more tangible to prove it’s existence. It’s hard to circle the square that God would create rational, thinking beings, then provide an intangible, irrational torture that lasts for all eternity without providing tangible evidence that – “THIS WILL HAPPEN.” Hitler and Stalin killed millions. This evangelical god (lower case on purpose) wouldn’t kill millions, he would torture BILLIONS, for all eternity. That is not the actions of a just and loving God. There is no justice that would warrant an eternal torment.
Having said all that, I believe you are on the right trail. It would be really interesting if there were a more accurate, updated translation (but then the question becomes – which “original” Bible to translate). It’s always ironic, reading the history of the KJV of the Bible, knowing people accept that is is explicitly the Word of God with no understanding of the environment it was created in, how many people were actually involved, or what came before.
Well said, CJ. I would even take it one step further, because Evangelicals don’t ultimately believe this god is torturing people for their wrongdoing. They believe he is torturing them for their LACK OF BELIEF.
So by the prevailing theological view, Hitler could decide to believe in God on his deathbed, and “Glory! Grace knows no bounds!”. But on the flip side, if Mahatma Gandhi finished his days without believing that Jesus was divine, he could expect an eternity of viscous, conscious torment.
This view is so far removed from justice, it requires a 4-yea- degree’s worth of fancy theological footwork to explain it.
Concerning our view on the Bible, I think “what is the Bible?” will become an increasingly asked question over the next few decades as people begin to question their fundamentalism. And I’m not sure what the correct answer is, but to me, it’s a highly significantly collection of man’s observations of God throughout history.
This is all very interesting, but irrelevant .. An intelligent person sees that all of us have thoroughly Indoctrinated in one or more ways, we have been programmed by society and groups and people and tradition, and often of course, some sort of ‘religion’, frequently not of our own choice .. It is Illogical to believe in irrational or nonsensical ‘beliefs’, imposed on us by others, who commonly expect us to ‘believe’ ( and obey ) without question .. !! It is better to look elsewhere for more reliable ‘truth’ than any religion or church .. !! It is better to be realistic and sensible than blindly follow any teaching or practice, it is an insult to the intelligent to expect anyone to swallow far fetched stories and claims, as is commonly done by billions .. Too bad, everyone has been ‘brainwashed’, including you and me .. !! O well .. * * –==O==– * *
Haha I hear you on that, but you seem unnecessarily pessimistic in your outlook.
When we can look up in the stars and see all the way back to the beginning of the universe – when we can look through a microscope and see particles numbering more than the stars of our galaxy – is there anything that can be considered more far fetched than reality itself?
What a marvelous thing it is, to be alive.
Loved the article. I’m a recently self-exiled Catholic…I call myself a ‘Recovering Catholic’ and I was raised on Hell and a terrifying image of a very judgmental and punishing God, much like my own father on earth. It is a massive struggle to overcome this image and articles like yours help a great deal. I also hope that sometime you will ‘tackle Heaven’, so to speak. I feel instinctively that God at least ‘should’ love everyone and we should all come together as a family in Heaven one day. But due to my past upbringing, I often become overwhelmed with negative thinking on these issues. More evangelical friends belittle my ‘salvation for all’ ideas as some kind of grand ‘Kumbaya pie in the sky’. Sometimes I feel that the only reason I even cling to a tenuous belief in God is because I long to see my late Mom again. If there is no Heaven, that won’t happen and then, I really don’t care so much if God exists or not. Many good atheist friends don’t believe in God or an afterlife and do more good than most Christianists that I know. You have captured my interest with this article and I look forward to more. 🙂
Hey Terri, thanks for the kind words and insightful thoughts!
We will be going through a number of afterlife perspectives after finishing our discussion of Hell. I personally believe that all of Creation will be redeemed.
And I’d say that those who scoff at “pie in the sky” have probably never taken a moment to glance up and appreciate exactly what God placed in the sky. I can’t imagine how someone could examine the vastness of the universe and come away thinking it was all created for something as petty as a binary belief decision.
Hey man. Whether you are intentional or not, you are a false prophet. Jesus Christ came to Earth to save people from their sins and hell. If he’ll didn’t exist (literal eternal torment) there would be no point in salvation. Plus God doesn’t send people to hell. People choose to go to hell based on their rejection of Christ.
Hey Kyle, thanks for commenting. I wasn’t aware there was anything prophetic in my article. That’s any interesting thought.
“If he’ll didn’t exist (literal eternal torment) there would be no point in salvation.”
Why do you say that? If saving people from Hell was the only reason Jesus came, then why didn’t he ever talk about saving people from Hell?
The comment from Kyle – whether intentional or not – touches on a part of this discussion that I find more interesting than just a word study of hell (although I agree that it is a good place to start – and if you haven’t already – check Edward Fudge’s Fire that Consumes for a pretty good one).
And that would be this: Is the concept of eternal torment for some humans and some angelic beings a part of what God was trying to communicate to us through Jesus (and continues to try to communicate through scripture and the Holy Spirit)? And if so, why?And also, at what level of agreement do we need to place it? Dogma, doctrine, or opinion?
But – if that is not what God was trying to tell us – why have parts of the the church put so much effort into promulgating and defending this idea? Does that possibly tell us something about ourselves.
Maybe I am tipping my hand here, but just yesterday I read an interview with Rob Bell that mentioned that there had been 16 books published in refutation of his Love Wins. That’s a lot of effort over something (especially if you were they one that decided 15 books were not enough). I would venture to guess that even more effort was put in to countering the misunderstood theology of The Shack.
Anyways, as someone who has responsibility to teach others how to follow Jesus, I always struggle with how to prioritize this issue. It seems to be very important to some – as if their understanding of God and his nature hinges on whether he would or would not condemn someone to suffer eternally – and maybe I was at that place in my life once also. But now it seems like there are more important issues to deal with.
Hey man. Whether you know it or not, you are a false teacher and leading people astray. Jesus Christ came to the Erath to save people from their sins and hell (literal eternal torment). If hell didn’t exist there would be no need for salvation. I pray you get in the right track.
Jacob you have an amazing ability in writing . Your vocabulary , punctuation and sentence structure is clarity x3 ! But , oh yes I have a but ( pun intended ) . i am curious about jesus and Nico (notice i capitalized Nico but not Jesus -ut oh ) . There are natural ( God given ) laws that are smashed when a God-image bearer becomes ‘ born again’ . The main one I propose is the whole duality mindset of fallen man changes to a ‘one ‘ tree of life , rather than the old/young , tall/short, good , bad mindset of fallen mankind . I at this point in my walk will apply the ‘secrets’ of the new man I became to those on this ‘side’ of heaven / hell , meaning those who cannot see cannot see . No matter how I propose this loving God ‘could never ‘ do this or that , it is a simple truth that everything I have in regards to faith , hope and love came from Him at the new birth. So for me the question is are all ‘saved ‘ already but just do not know it ?! Hmmmmmm………………..
I’m curious as to what your scriptural perspective is on what happens to believers versus unbelievers when they depart this life? Thanks!
I’m curious as to your scriptural perspective on what happens to believers versus unbelievers after they depart this life. Thanks!
Hello, Jacob,
Thank you for this labor of love. I helped me when I needed it.
I was a lonely Universalist for a long time. Then I read Gulley and Mulholland’s book ‘If Grace Is True.’ They put together an argument and an account of experience I could never manage. Like Pilgrim, I felt as if a great stone had rolled off my back. I was fillled with joy.
The following books and authors have strengthened my faith by changing it.
Karen Armstrong, The Case For God; The Bible: A Biography
Rabbi Aaron Parry, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to the Talmud (Jesus sounds like a Pharisee!)
Michael Grant, Saint Paul; Jesus: An Historian’s Review of the Gospels
Richard Elliott Freedman, The Bible with Sources Revealed (Color and Font coded text of the first five books of the OT, that is, Torah.)
Amy-Jill Levine, et al., The Jewish Annotated New Testament
Final note: The harsher quotations from C. S. Lewis are from the period when he tried to make Christianity logical. Much later in life his views and approach changed. The end of ‘The Last Battle’ is instructive.
Looking forward to Part Two!
I think Christ eludes ‘enough’ to infer that Hell is a physical place although, I believe that it isn’t ‘necessarily’ exactly how we imagine it. Annihilation-ism, has been an argument since the beginning of Christendom. In saying that, the bible in itself is vague enough to allow us to continue having this discussion until he returns. If we presume to understand the eternal we mock God, we are not Him. I do believe that God is sovereign, and has allowed through the years for the concept of hell to be maintained as a mainstay of the collective Evangelical Christian experience.
Jacob,
You are correct in that Yeshua never mentions the word hell because the word hell is simply an English translation of the underlying greek words. Even though hell can’t technically be found in the Bible, as you suggest, you do seem to have an opinion of hell and what it is, etc.
So, could you please define hell?
I ask because you state in your post above that you believe in hell, that you have read extensively about hell, and that you have even caught a glimpse of it yourself, etc.
Furthermore, you provide some examples — you suggest that hell could be the disillusioned numbness of the soldier, the grief of surviving family members, the hopelessness of the drug addict, etc.
Frankly, you leave me confused as to what hell is, where hell is, etc. Is it an emotion, is it a place, is it a behavior?
It would be helpful for me, and maybe for your other readers, if you could biblically define hell for us all.
How does this square up with jesus telling us to turn the other cheek?
What about Revelation 20:10? Just wondering.
What about Matthew 25:41 when it speaks about departing from him and being cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels? Doesn’t say hell but it describes it pretty well. Mistranslation?
Great Job in using the greek but there is a word that is used 71 different times in the New Testament from Mathew to Revelation. It is called AIONIOS. It describes God, Jesus, Heaven, AND HELL. The meaning of aionios is FOREVER, ETERNAL,UNENDING. Ladies and gentleman, the word “PERISH” has 6 different meanings in the greek text. Some similar and some different. To be dogmatic in the belief that hell is temporary is dangerous. The one thing regardless is understanding the truth of salvation and why we need it. STUDY THE WORD TO SHOW YOUR SELF APPROVED! Jesus is who He claimed He was. Jesus came for the reason He says also…..
I think this argument can be wrapped up with one bible verse and a little conjecture ;
” If ye being of evil know how to give good gifts to your children ,
Then how much more shall our father in heaven give unto you.
this verse speaks of God’s goodness and compares our unrighteous heart of giving . using this example We should ask ourselves how we correct our children
do we ground our five year old child for a year for stealing a cookie before diner I hope not do we beat our teens everyday all day long because they perhaps drank or used drugs I pray not Then I say this if we are able to forgive others of their sins ( a term used in archery as not to hit the mark) then how much more will Our Father who loves us so much he sent his Son to suffer in our place be willing and able to forgive us .
the importance of trying to live a “Sin” free life is not so we can make it to heaven
the importance is We live our lives serving God to the best of our abilities by forgiving and loving others the way God forgives and loves us That we may live a Healthy, Happy , and Prosperous life
Kyle, Why would you say that. ?? I know this was commented on I 2015, but my goodness. If you love God, why do you have a need for the existence of an eternal hell hanging over your head? Example of what your God is saying, “Love me and follow my rules or else.” My GOD says I love you.
My colleagues wanted DA 5823 several days ago and saw a web service that has a huge forms library . If others are interested in DA 5823 too , here’s http://goo.gl/BdQ6tC
Just came across your article and I yes I do beleive in Hell but Hell is not eternal.
Everybody seems to get something from scripture and believes what they get is from God.
In saying that, what I see scripture is talking about I s Hell lasting for an Age and it being a place of correction a place of refining as a refiners fire.
I beleive scripture is talking about restoration of all things. The Bible is the Good News. I beleive all will be saved some through faith through faith in Jesus others through the flames first then through Jesus.
Wouldn’t it be funny if ALL are brought to repentance! Maybe even the Devil himself. Scripture does say ALL knee’s will bow. Of course, God is not that powerful.
appreciate your article. Well written, interesting, and helpful. Agreed.
A comment / question for thought….
re. Mt.10.28. Who decided to capitalize “Him” ? Who decided that “him” refers to God?